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What Iranians have known about Jimmy Carter from the beginning
Freedom.org ^
| April 19, 2003
| Don Fife
Posted on 04/19/2003 12:08:44 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
click here to read article
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To: freedom44
The Shah was brutual to Islamic Fundamentalists, Communists, and Terrorists. I agree with your point, and I don't mean to detract from it with my comments.
But the Shaw of Iran is often held up by the left as an example of what goes wrong in the mideast when we give carte blanche to client dictators in defense of our national interests. Of course the left even goes so far as to say that religious extremism itself would be casued by the terrible suffering the Shaw caused.
War is hell, and we already know the left will do anything it can to deny its necessity.
Many on the left today don't understand the bitter flareups that were the reality of the Cold War. They blame the heinous suffering on the battle-scarred Cold Warriors, their client dictators, and our supporting troops both clandestine and conventional.
Of course the left never addresses the fact that the communists brought conflict to the regions in question. It's their deeply held belief in Marxist ideology that ties them to acceptance of "armed economic struggle." There's never a hint of encouragement for free markets as a solution for poverty.
The force of maniacal communist expansion had to be stopped with whatever means necessary.
61
posted on
04/19/2003 7:21:35 PM PDT
by
risk
To: Tailgunner Joe
Thanks for this history lesson.
I was just a kid when Carter was President. I remember the Iranian hostage crisis, watching Nightline with my mom, but had no inkling of what precipitated the whole thing.
And of course it's not something I would have learned in Government Indoctrination Camp :-)
62
posted on
04/19/2003 7:30:39 PM PDT
by
Marie Antoinette
(After nearly 5 years on FR, I'm *still* learning!)
To: Tailgunner Joe
Good article, but this sentence:
We supplied him with a massive arms buildup, which apparently included chemical, and perhaps even biological, weapons.
... is an absolute lie. We supplied Saddam with intelligence during the Iran-Iraq war and bought his oil. That was the extent of the relationship.
He got his weapons on the free market, mostly from Russian sources, with the money he made from oil sales. His chems and bios were homegrown for the most part. Iraq had the second-most advanced biological program in the world, after the USSR.
63
posted on
04/19/2003 7:42:20 PM PDT
by
Campion
To: Extremely Extreme Extremist
That is a beautiful map.
64
posted on
04/19/2003 7:48:26 PM PDT
by
Samwise
(All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.)
To: Tailgunner Joe
"The 15,000,000 Iraqis were outnumbered by the 43,000,000 Iranians; but with the weapons we supplied him, Saddam Hussein fought the Iranians to a stalemate. Can't anybody get this straight?
We did NOT supply Saddam with WEAPONS. Yes, we did give him some intelligence about those calling us "the Great Satan." Weapons?---No.
To: Tailgunner Joe
Great post Joe. (I'm a little more cynical in regards to Carter's "Irony")
To: fortress
Darn it! Ya beat me to it! He flew home from "France". And was'nt that ChIraqs boss yeah I think it was Mitterand was'nt it, that was in power at the time. The same guy who said no you can't use french airspace to bomb Libya. As a result we ( Thank you again, France.) lost lives because of that action. No, I have'nt forgotten the bountiful help.
67
posted on
04/19/2003 9:42:44 PM PDT
by
Madcelt
(With Friends like the Axis of Weasels......who the hell needs an enemy.)
To: SAMWolf
"Why anyone pays attention to him I'll never understand."
Idiots congrugate???
68
posted on
04/19/2003 9:46:12 PM PDT
by
Madcelt
(With Friends like the Axis of Weasels......who the hell needs an enemy.)
To: Madcelt
LOL Birds of a feather I guess.
69
posted on
04/19/2003 10:00:06 PM PDT
by
SAMWolf
(n this world there's two kinds of people: Those with loaded guns and those who dig. You dig.)
To: C210N; evad
no. It fails to provide "East German" involvement. You remember...the Two Deustchlands. I have'nt forgotten "East Germany". No, I don't trust the present "unified" Germany either. Seen the post by MadIvan today? I believe more things may come to light as time passes.
70
posted on
04/19/2003 10:04:12 PM PDT
by
Madcelt
(With Friends like the Axis of Weasels......who the hell needs an enemy.)
To: SAMWolf
no truer words my friend, no truer words! LOL
71
posted on
04/19/2003 10:05:58 PM PDT
by
Madcelt
(With Friends like the Axis of Weasels......who the hell needs an enemy.)
To: Madcelt
BTT
To: polemikos
You're my hero. Your entire text should be the Carter entry in our kids' school books. Instead, they read about what a nice guy he is, and how well he's done as a statesman since leaving office.
73
posted on
04/19/2003 10:18:41 PM PDT
by
Rastus
To: Tailgunner Joe
Should we worry that the Shiites in Iraq will turn it into another Islamic nutcase state? Let's hope we didn't oust the Shah again. That is one region where Atheism even if it's founded in Marxist ideology is preferable. The more I see the newly freed Iraqis in action-- looting of hospitals, urging us to leave (already) and the overall Muslim mindset-- I am convinced that democracy in the mideast will elect extremist clerics. It is a terribly prejudiced view, but are the Arabs incapable of democracy and civilized society?
74
posted on
04/19/2003 10:21:49 PM PDT
by
faithincowboys
(God Bless Our Troops!)
To: faithincowboys
This is why we must help them to found a truly federal republic which protects the interests of all Iraqis. Iraq should be ruled by law, not by the whim of the easily manipulated masses.
To: aruanan
Some backup for your earlier statement:
That data is from SIPRI, as indicated in the chart notes.
To: FreedomPoster
Thanks.
77
posted on
04/20/2003 5:04:53 AM PDT
by
aruanan
To: risk
I have been writing to an Iranina kid for the last 3 years.
He chastised me for saying the Shah was bad. He reminded me that even though the Shah is responsible for about 50,000 deaths over his entire reign, the Ayatollahs killed that many in their first 6 months, and every 6 onths after that for the first 3 years, killing over half a million since 1979.
http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/hostagerescueattempt/
To: RaceBannon
He chastised me for saying the Shah was bad. Very interesting. I consider myself an existentialist, and this (to me) points out the error in Carter's ways: he wanted perfection, and he got something much worse. If he could have faced the real implications of his choices, he would have worked with the Shaw to reform that rule instead of letting it fall. The existentialist would have accepted the Shaw's flaws or would have found a humane solution equally or better suited to American interests.
Of course the Shaw was dying, but wouldn't that have been an opportunity to replace him with a successor who could have renewed efforts to bring peace to the country?
One question: were any of the 100,000 deaths per year your Iranian friend mentions related to the Iran-Iraq war? As far as I know, this war was started by Saddam and tolerated by the USA because we wanted to limit Iran's Islamic revolution. The Iranian tactics were characteristic of suicide warfare, and they would even use children to clear minefields.
79
posted on
04/20/2003 6:05:34 AM PDT
by
risk
To: auggy; alisasny; Tribune7; mandingo republican
I read somewhere that Jimmy Carter was a born-again Christian, and I have also read plenty of articles about his involvement with Habitat for Humanity.
I don't recall anyone accusing Jimmy Carter of being a crook.
Yes, he is politically my adversary, and he might be lusting for worldly recognition by getting involved in losing crusades.
Nevertheless, the only person I know who met Carter while he was Georgia governor told me that Carter was a nice guy. Maybe Carter has changed since then.
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