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China sacks health minister, 21 new SARS deaths worldwide (China's got their own "Baghdad Bob")
Bangkok Post ^ | 4.20.03

Posted on 04/20/2003 9:30:15 AM PDT by Enemy Of The State

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To: riri
I'll ping you as I get more info.
21 posted on 04/20/2003 12:24:32 PM PDT by HassanBenSobar (I now inform you that you are too far from reality!)
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To: aristeides; CathyRyan; blam; riri; Dog Gone; EternalHope; Domestic Church; per loin; ...
From your link http://www.newsday.com/news/health/ny-hssars203245372apr20,0,7629675.story?coll=ny-health-headlines "Liao said that the plumbing construction in Amoy Gardens acted as an amplifier, spreading the virus through sections that shared plumbing with the one occupied by the kidney patient's brother. Investigators figured out that the toilet drain pipes from each bathroom went to large vertical pipes, or stacks. Separate pipes, feeding into the same stacks, were supposed to carry away water that had dripped onto the floors or shower of the bathrooms. Developers put a U bend in the floor drain pipe, intending it to hold enough water to form a block against a backflow. But the U pipes were usually dry, because apartment residents used water frugally. So vapors from the waste stack could flow backward, carrying contaminated droplets into bathrooms.

This explanation provided little solace, because such plumbing configurations are common in this city. Residents' associations demanded this weekend that authorities check their plumbing. Yesterday, Liao, an environmental scientist, posed for the media, studying the pipes and sewer systems of two buildings next to Amoy, offering praise for recent plumbing alterations made by building managers."

The article also also identifies the mechanism for spreading the disease initially in hospitals as nebulizers. I do not know if any of this is truth or merely a working theory.

The punch line of the article is that there really aren't super spreaders, there are conditions that lead to more rapid spread.

What this article does not address is what appears to me to be a high incidence of SARS infection in travelers versus the general polulation residing in Hong Kong. Residual viral loads in hotel rooms? Bugs lurking / actively spread through airplane cabin pressurization systems? Close contact for 1 to 16 hours at a stretch with infected passengers [also obviously linked to planes]? Suseptability due to the irregular schedules involved in almost all travel?

Any theories? Do you believe that what I interpret as a higher risk to travelers reflects reality or is it merely proportionaly higher reporting of antecdotes?

22 posted on 04/20/2003 12:54:56 PM PDT by R W Reactionairy
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To: R W Reactionairy
I've wondered if that apparent heavy incidence among travelers is just an artifact of increased surveilance of travelers.
23 posted on 04/20/2003 1:09:34 PM PDT by per loin
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To: R W Reactionairy
As far as increased statistics on travelers goes, HK schools have been shut down at least for a while, as I recall..
24 posted on 04/20/2003 2:19:50 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: per loin; CathyRyan; Domestic Church; aristeides
Right now I'm thinking of all those dead scientists...remember them?
25 posted on 04/20/2003 2:24:10 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: pram
German Firm Distributes First SARS Test Worldwide
26 posted on 04/20/2003 2:26:40 PM PDT by blam
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To: Judith Anne
"Right now I'm thinking of all those dead scientists...remember them?"

No. Where & when?

27 posted on 04/20/2003 2:33:57 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
Someone who remembers better than I do please correct me...as I recall, late last summer and fall, there were like 7 or 8 world-renowned microbiologists who died or disappeared from a variety of causes...murder, accident, apparent suicide...etc.
28 posted on 04/20/2003 2:44:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: blam; Admin Moderator
Okay, from this website:

http://www.restoringamerica.org/archive/medical/microbiologists_die.html

Here ya go:

May 4, 2002
It's a tale only the best conspiracy theorist could dream up. Eleven microbiologists mysteriously dead over the span of just five months. Some of them world leaders in developing weapons-grade biological plagues. Others the best in figuring out how to stop millions from dying because of biological weapons. Still others, experts in the theory of bioterrorism.

Throw in a few Russian defectors, a few nervy U.S. biotech companies, a deranged assassin or two, a bit of Elvis, a couple of Satanists, a subtle hint of espionage, a big whack of imagination, and the plot is complete, if a bit reminiscent of James Bond.

The first three died in the space of just over a week in November. Benito Que, 52, was an expert in infectious diseases and cellular biology at the Miami Medical School. Police originally suspected that he had been beaten on Nov. 12 in a carjacking in the medical school's parking lot. Strangely enough, though, his body showed no signs of a beating. Doctors then began to suspect a stroke.

Just four days after Dr. Que fell unconscious came the mysterious disappearance of Don Wiley, 57, one of the foremost microbiologists in the United States. Dr. Wiley, of the Howard Hughes Medical Institute at Harvard University, was an expert on how the immune system responds to viral attacks such as the classic doomsday plagues of HIV, ebola and influenza. He had just bought tickets to take his son to Graceland the following day.

Police found his rental car on a bridge outside Memphis, Tenn. His body was later found in the Mississippi River. Forensic experts said he may have had a dizzy spell and have fallen off the bridge.

Just five days after that, the world-class microbiologist and high-profile Russian defector Valdimir Pasechnik, 64, fell dead. The pathologist who did the autopsy, and who also happened to be associated with Britain's spy agency, concluded he died of a stroke.

Dr. Pasechnik, who defected to the United Kingdom in 1989, played a huge role in Russian biowarfare and helped to figure out how to modify cruise missiles to deliver the agents of mass biological destruction.

The next two deaths came four days apart in December. Robert Schwartz, 57, was stabbed and slashed with what police believe was a sword in his farmhouse in Leesberg, Va. His daughter, who identifies herself as a pagan high priestess, and several of her fellow pagans have been charged. Dr. Schwartz was an expert in DNA sequencing and pathogenic micro-organisms, who worked at the Center for Innovative Technology in Herndon, Va. Four days later, Nguyen Van Set, 44, died at work in Geelong, Australia, in a laboratory accident. He entered an airlocked storage lab and died from exposure to nitrogen.

Other scientists at the animal diseases facility of the Commonwealth Scientific and Industrial Research Organization had just come to fame for discovering a virulent strain of mousepox, which could be modified to affect smallpox.

Then in February, the Russian microbiologist Victor Korshunov, 56, an expert in intestinal bacteria of children around the world, was bashed over the head near his home in Moscow.

Five days later the British microbiologist Ian Langford, 40, was found dead in his home near Norwich, England, naked from the waist down and wedged under a chair. He was an expert in environmental risks and disease.

Two weeks later, two prominent microbiologists died in San Francisco. Tanya Holzmayer, 46, a Russian who moved to the U.S. in 1989, focused on the part of the human molecular structure that could be affected best by medicine. She was killed by fellow microbiologist Guyang (Matthew) Huang, 38, who shot her seven times when she opened the door to a pizza delivery. Then he shot himself.

The final two deaths came one day after the other in March. David Wynn-Williams, 55, a respected astrobiologist with the British Antarctic Survey, who studied the habits of microbes that might survive in outer space, died in a freak road accident near his home in Cambridge, England. He was hit by a car while he was jogging. The following day, Steven Mostow, 63, known as Dr. Flu for his expertise in treating influenza, and a noted expert in bioterrorism, died when the airplane he was piloting crashed near Denver.

So what does any of it mean?

"Statistically, what are the chances?" wondered a prominent North American microbiologist reached last night at an international meeting of infectious-disease specialists in Chicago. Janet Shoemaker, director of public and scientific affairs of the American Society for Microbiology in Washington, D.C., pointed out yesterday that there are about 20,000 academic researchers in microbiology in the U.S. Still, not all of these are of the elevated calibre of those recently deceased.

She had a chilling, final thought.

When microbiologists die in a lab, there's a way of taking note of the deaths and adding them up. When they die in freakish accidents outside the lab, nobody keeps track. Suspicious deaths The sudden and suspicious deaths of 11 of the world's leading microbiologists. Who they were:

1. Nov. 12, 2001 Benito Que was said to have been beaten in a Miami parking lot and died later.
2. Nov. 16, 2001 Don C. Wiley went missing. Was found Dec. 20. Investigators said he got dizzy on a Memphis bridge and fell to his death in a river.

3. Nov. 21, 2001 Vladimir Pasechnik, former high-level Russian microbiologist who defected in 1989 to the U.K. apparently died from a stroke.

4. Dec. 10, 2001 Robert M. Schwartz was stabbed to death in Leesberg, Va. Three Satanists have been arrested.

5. Dec. 14, 2001 Nguyen Van Set died in an airlock filled with nitrogen in his lab in Geelong, Australia.

6. Feb. 9, 2002 Victor Korshunov had his head bashed in near his home in Moscow.

7. Feb. 14, 2002 Ian Langford was found partially naked and wedged under a chair in Norwich, England.

8. & 9.Feb. 28, 2002 San Francisco resident Tanya Holzmayer was killed by a microbiologist colleague, Guyang Huang, who shot her as she took delivery of a pizza and then apparently shot himself.

10. March 24, 2002 David Wynn-Williams died in a road accident near his home in Cambridge, England.

11. March 25, 2002 Steven Mostow of the Colorado Health Sciences Centre, killed in a plane he was flying near Denver. ___ http//www.globeandmail.ca/servlet/GIS.Servlet







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29 posted on 04/20/2003 2:52:53 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne
"Someone who remembers better than I do please correct me...as I recall, late last summer and fall, there were like 7 or 8 world-renowned microbiologists who died or disappeared from a variety of causes...murder, accident, apparent suicide...etc."

Thanks. I remember that. I thought you were talking about something else.

30 posted on 04/20/2003 3:04:12 PM PDT by blam
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To: blam
I guess I was only off by a year or so...(shamefaced laugh)
31 posted on 04/20/2003 3:09:42 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne
Thanks for posting about the dead microbiologists. I remember there were numerous threads about this on FR about a year ago.
32 posted on 04/20/2003 3:19:09 PM PDT by TBall
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To: TBall
You're welcome, but don't mind me...I seem to have developed a tinfoil hairdo lately...
33 posted on 04/20/2003 3:26:05 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne
Wow, I had forgotten all about those deaths.

I am losing all sense of objectivity here. So, I'll ask, are some dots starting to be drawn together?

34 posted on 04/20/2003 3:29:01 PM PDT by riri
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To: riri
I have no idea. As I said, don't mind me, I was wearing tinfoil when I woke up this morning...
35 posted on 04/20/2003 3:31:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne
Here is an old story on the subject.

http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/post?id=748153%2C1
36 posted on 04/20/2003 3:42:10 PM PDT by TBall
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To: Judith Anne
Sorry, this should work

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/748153/posts
37 posted on 04/20/2003 3:50:27 PM PDT by TBall
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To: TBall
No problem. Here's one from an apparently prescient poster on that thread...

"I think you hit the nail on the head with plan #1. I have been following this story from the beginning, and I think your explanation #1 is what it is all about. I believe in the next year or two we are going to see some lethal plagues and viruses circulating around the globe.


13 posted on 09/10/2002 3:47 PM PDT by DBtoo"

I'm going back to your link to read some more.
38 posted on 04/20/2003 3:57:51 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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To: Judith Anne
Oh my!!!!!! Yes, that guy, molecular biologist, from Harvard who went to a conference at St.Jude's Childrens Hospital and then was dumped into the Mississippi River. He was top in his field and certainly would be up to his elbows in this SARS. That does point another arrow towards this being germwarfare. Did you know the islamic extremists(gee maybe it was China?) have been bumping off Israeli scientists for decades too?
39 posted on 04/20/2003 3:59:31 PM PDT by Domestic Church (AMDG...)
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To: Domestic Church
Okay. I'm getting goose bumps to go with my tinfoil hat now. I think I'll go do something else for a while. See you later.

40 posted on 04/20/2003 4:04:35 PM PDT by Judith Anne
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