(Alaska) Bill drops teenage wages (lets teens be paid less than minimum wage)

Juneau Empire ^ | 4.18.03

[mhking]

Bill drops teenage wages

Proposed measure would let employers pay teens less than the minimum wage

By CATHY BROWN - The Associated Press

Alaska businesses would be able to pay anyone under 20 less than minimum wage under a bill approved this week by a House committee.

The bill also would loosen rules on flex time arrangements and do away with some state rules governing when employees can be put on salary, instead of being paid hourly. Federal rules would apply instead.

"I truly believe this will expand job opportunities for youngsters in the state of Alaska," said Rep. Norman Rokeberg, an Anchorage Republican who introduced the bill.

Representatives of organized labor say the bill rolls back hard-won protections for working people.

"We're opposed to the entire bill," said Don Etheridge of the Alaska State AFL-CIO before the House Labor and Commerce Committee.

The measure would allow employers to pay workers below age 20 less than minimum wage for a 90-day training period. Alaska businesses already can pay less than minimum wage to employees under 18 who work fewer than 30 hours a week.

House Bill 255 expands that provision to 18- and 19-year-olds and to a 40-hour work week. Employers still would have to pay teens the federal minimum of $5.15 an hour.

"We're bringing young people in, and it's pretty intensive in terms of time to train that particular individual to do the job," said Frank Rose, president of the Alaska Hotel and Lodging Association.

Opponents argued it does not take 90 days to train teens to cook burgers or make beds. And some people under 20 have families to support, they said.

Chip Wagoner of the Alaska Catholic Conference said the state's Roman Catholic bishops oppose lowering the minimum wage.

"The most often-cited subject in the New Testament is service to the poor," Wagoner said. "This bill is an attempt to take $2 out of the pockets of those people that need it the most and put $2 into the pockets of people who don't need it as much."

Rokeberg argued that nothing would prevent businesses from paying teens more, and if they were good workers, they'd get raises or find better-paying jobs. He also said the provision is similar to what's allowed in federal law.

The bill also would do away with some state regulations on when employees can be put on salary and be exempt from overtime laws.

The state lets companies exempt some workers from overtime laws even if up to 40 percent of their time is spent on tasks normally covered by overtime laws. That's allowed only if their pay is 2.5 times the minimum wage.

With the boost this year in the state minimum wage to $7.15 an hour, those businesses must pay salaried employees the equivalent of $17.88 an hour, Rokeberg said.

His bill would do away with that provision and rely instead on federal rules dealing with when employees are exempt from overtime. Those regulations are being amended.

A draft of the new federal rules calls for employees to make at least $425 a week, or the equivalent of $10.63 an hour, to be exempt from overtime laws. Other tests also would apply.

The bill also would repeal a requirement that the Department of Labor and Workforce Development commissioner approve "flex time" agreements that let employees work more than eight hours some days without overtime. Current law limits flex times deals to no more than 10 hours a day and 40 hours a week.

Rokeberg proposes requiring a written agreement between worker and boss to be filed with the department, but not requiring the commissioner's approval.

Also, he would limit flex time agreements to no more than 12 hours a day without overtime and no more than 80 hours in a two-week period.

[mhking]

"Hold muh beer 'n watch this!" PING....

If you want on or off this list, please let me know!

[bewildered]

I can't believe that B.S. about them having families to support. These are mainly seasonal jobs from people who come here from out of state, pay no income taxes, work in the canneries, fishing boats, hotels, then go home. Of course there are the other Mcdonalds variety jobs but once again the free market should reign.

Minimum wage is just another way of government getting involved in private enterprise. If anyone is worth a damn, they can get paid more. I've lived here all my life and can't remember ever getting minimum wage except part time in high school.

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

Oh cool, I guess that proves some people are worth less than others.

If a teenager does the same job, he should get the same pay as someone closer to death.

[bannie]

Hey, you guys, "minimum wages" have always been a deterrant for hiring.

Teenagers were great babysitters because they cost less--it wasn't that we would hire an adult if we had to pay "min wage": It was that we wouldn't go out! The teenagers didn't take anyone's job away: They produced a market! To even the field, minimum wages should simply be done away with. The need for this bill shows its ineffectiveness.

What the market will bear. It was good enough for our Nation's builders.

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

Sure, that's right.

Oh and Tommy, before you go home, I just want you to know how good a job you are doing. It's too bad that you are going to be taking a pay cut. I hope you can still afford to keep fuel in your car to make it to work and pay for that cell phone so we can call you in when we need you. Oh and those diapers for your son, let him use your old shirts, they'll wash clean.

Oh don't worry, if you can't afford it, we'll find someone else who is just a little more desperate than you are to fill the job. It's not like there aren't thousands of teenagers out there who need to work.

[RightWhale]

I can't believe that B.S. about them having families to support.

Besides, it's for the under-20 crowd. The bill has got a lot of attention, but most of it is knee-jerk.

[rolling_stone]

Oh Tommy since we have to pay you minimum wage we cut your job, so hit the bricks, try unemployment or welfare, one of those government programs, they seem to know what is best for you not us employers.......and as for having a son, a car and a cell phone, maybe you should have gotten a skill and a good paying job before getting any of the above....you know responsibility...

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

"and as for having a son, a car and a cell phone, maybe you should have gotten a skill and a good paying job before getting any of the above....you know responsibility... "

Um, how is a "teenanger" going to get a skill and a good paying job before he graduates? Hmmmmm?

Some teens, and some adults make stupid mistakes, I enjoy seeing an idiot punished for his stupidity just as much as the next man, but if he's trying to do the right thing, why salt his wounds?

That argument of the employer not hiring someone because he has to pay minimum wage to another is a good argument I'll agree. Look at all of the illegals put to work in the fields getting paid nearly nothing to work their asses off. You can bet if they earned a living wage, there wouldn't be any illegals out there if the employer had to pay a minimum wage.

Nope, that crop would have to get it's damned self into the shipping containers because he isn't going to pay to get the job done if it costs too much.

Bah!

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

Many of them probably do not have families to support, and for them, there are still bills that teens today have to pay. What do you want them to do, take two, three, or more jobs to keep going?

And what do they do about school? And when they turn 20, does the employer fire them to hire another cheaper employee because he will have to raise their pay?

While I don't agree with government intervention in our lives on anything but a strictly limited level, lowering the payscale to whatever the employer wants to pay is going to cause a major problem for a lot of kids who DO have to work to support families.

There are a lot of skinflint employers who would chose to see their employees reduced to abject poverty as long as they could make a profit off them. Not all, but some.

Just because YOU don't believe something doesn't make it less of a fact. You can choose to disbelieve, but that just might be a dragon waiting to eat you. (Obscure AD&D reference from a misspent youth.)

[John Lenin]

They rasied the minimum wage in CA and my $5.65 burrito and ice tea lunch went to $7.04. The jokes on the consumer when they raise the minumum wage.

[bewildered]

First of all Tommy wouldn't be taking a pay cut, assuming the poor, picked-on boy is already employed. And by the way, Tommy ought to wait till he has an education, a decent job and education before he starts having kids anyway.

Perhaps if he paid less attention to his cell phone and more to his studies, he would have more of a clue in life. I'm sure he had fun pretending he was an actual adult for a while. Only an idiot would think they could have a car, mandatory insurance, cell phone?, oh yes and a house on mimimum wage. I wonder if Tommy's Mom or his girlfriend watches the kid while he goes to flip burgers.

I know, we need another Federal Governement program to assist the unfortunates like Tommy all over the country who just can't afford to live because they are too stupid.

And by the way, if you had any clue what you were talking about, you would already know about all the free State and Federal money available to poor parents here in Alaska.

[DennisR]

"...guess that proves some people are worth less than others..."

True story--some people are worth less than others. This does not mean they do not deserve respect as human beings, which they do, or that they are not good people, and so forth. But when you are a teenager, it is a rite of passage to get that first job, regardless of how much they pay you. And if you stay there for a very long period of time, you deserve to be there. But you know as well as I do that businesses--if they want to stay in business--will eventually increase the pay of those people whom they deem to be good for their business. It's the American way, even if not perfect.

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

How much you willing to bet that there is no price change when these idiots start paying less to their people? Lower the price of a product when I'm already making a killing? Never!

Oooh, look at that, my profit margin just went up another seven percent. Thank you Alaska! Now I can afford that new fishing boat.

I may be a pessimist, but at least I am rarely wrong. Look for the worst in people and you won't be disappointed no matter what you find.

And before you start saying I'm anti business, I'm nothing of the sort, I'm just trying to show the other side of the coin and keeping this thread going to agitate and perturb.

hehehe

[bewildered]

I may be a pessimist, but at least I am rarely wrong. Look for the worst in people and you won't be disappointed no matter what you find.

That must be why you are a self-proclaimed divorced bastard. As an Alaskan business owner, I can tell that you have no clue whatsoever of which you speak. I only say this to those out there who don't already see the obvious.

[John Lenin]

Raising the minimum is plain and simple, inflation. And nothing hurts the poor and elderly more than inflation. That's a fact.

[bannie]

We've bastardized our economic system with a (growingly large) dose of socialism. IF we would remove the socialistic aspects of our system, allowing capitalism to regain its balance, WHAT THE MARKET WILL BEAR, would work.

You make a valid point about the current situation. You can't mix socialism with capitalism and have a balance. Unfortunately, the socialists in this nation want to remove the capitalism to achieve a balance in which the government owns us, and we can only survive at their mercy.

[Rasputin_TheMadMonk]

bewildered, I was playing devils advocate here. There was no reason for a personal attack.

As for that quote, it's meant to indicate that if you look for the worst and find something better you won't be disapointed.

[Veritas01]

umm, i live in alaska and am 20 this bill is one of the mostt stupid ideas i've ever heard of.

[Imal]

Hey, here's a great idea: how about just eliminating that stupid, Marxist minimum wage and letting the market decide how much labor is worth?

Or is that idea just too darned sensible?