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Methodist Bishop On Terrorism and "Jesus Will NOT Come Again" (It's hard to go to Church...)
Michael's Sword ^ | a little old, but some updates, 2001 and 2003 | Michael L. Gonzalez

Posted on 04/21/2003 9:01:51 AM PDT by rface

C. Joseph Sprague, currently in the position of bishop in the UMC Northern Illinois Conference, spoke as a self-professed representative of protestant Christianity at a public panel discussion on war and peace on Sunday evening, October 28, 2001. The Panelists, which included representatives of other world religions, as well as many people in the audience found Mr. Sprague's extreme pacifism as a laughing matter, as he was the only panelist who expressed non-support of the U.S. military action against the Taliban and Osama bin Laden. When an audience participant pressed Mr. Sprague to explain how he would stop terrorists from further murders in America and throughout the world, he couldn't propose a solution, but rather could only criticize the United States for a foreign policy that has resulted in deaths of Muslims in past years. In a feeble attempt to imply that there is a better way to deal with world terrorism, Mr. Sprague gave lip service to the United Nations with a vague reference to an international world court.

Mr. Sprague's pacifist position was not "breaking news" at the panel discussion, as he had previously publicized his criticism of America's war on terrorism. However, the unexpected news item from the event was Mr. Sprague's complete break from United Methodist doctrine concerning the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior. During the extremely brief question and answer period, Mr. Sprague responded to the question "When will Jesus come?" In his response -- in what is believed to be his first such public declaration on this matter -- Mr. Sprague said clearly and concisely that Jesus walked the earth about 2000 years ago and that he will NOT come again, as there will be no Second Coming!

The panel discussion titled "An Interfaith Dialogue On War and Peace" was held before at packed Sanctuary estimated at almost 600 people at the First United Methodist Church in Glen Ellyn, Illinois, a western suburb of Chicago. The audience represented the diversity of the American populace with as many people of Arab descent present in the building as those of European descent. The event was organized by UMC Reverend Diana M. Facemyer of Glen Ellyn's St. Thomas UMC, who acted as the host of the event......

There's more if you want it....HERE

also:

Bishop C. Joseph Sprague (click to learn some more...)


TOPICS: Culture/Society; News/Current Events; Philosophy; US: Illinois
KEYWORDS: antiamerica; antichrist; bummed; christian; methodist; religiousleft
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I posted this because of an editorial posted on the Wash. Times page, Anti-War Protestants....and the FReeper post titled the same
1 posted on 04/21/2003 9:01:51 AM PDT by rface
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To: rface
It has been long taught at Emory university that the second coming was the resurection.
2 posted on 04/21/2003 9:06:46 AM PDT by Lysander (My army can kill your army)
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To: rface
SO he is methodist-Islam?
3 posted on 04/21/2003 9:10:30 AM PDT by smith288 (Visit my gallery http://www.ejsmithweb.com/fr/hollywood/hollywood.php)
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To: rface
How sad.
4 posted on 04/21/2003 9:23:27 AM PDT by reflecting
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To: rface
the United States for a foreign policy that has resulted in deaths of Muslims in past years

Let's see, what regime has killed more Muslims than any other?

Answer: Saddam Hussein.

Thus is Joseph Sprague revealed for either the ignoramous he is, or the abettor of a mass murder.

Winning Iraqi Freeedom

5 posted on 04/21/2003 9:32:15 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Lysander
What is Emory's explanation then for the witness and explanantion of the angels to the disciples at Christ's ascension after He was resurrected as recorded in Acts 1:9-11.
9. And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight.

10. And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold two men stood by them in white apparel;

11. Which also said, Ye men of Galillee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

6 posted on 04/21/2003 9:41:48 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Lysander
Sheesh! My grandfather, who graduated Theology at Emory in 1910 or thereabouts, would be horrified. He was a Bible-believing, old-fashioned, cold-water Methodist preacher. He also was the closest person to a saint I've ever met.

What does Emory Theology say about the Apostle's Creed (let alone the Nicene Creed)? ("He shall come again with glory to judge both the quick and the dead")

7 posted on 04/21/2003 9:45:34 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: rface
How, exactly, can one call himself a Christian and not believe in Christ's resurection? Isn't that kind of like being a Democrat who knows what the definition of "is" is?
8 posted on 04/21/2003 10:17:52 AM PDT by sharktrager
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To: AnAmericanMother
I can't answer your questions about Emory. However, perhaps you and others will find it interesting that Bishop Sprague has angered a large segment of the United Methodist Church with his public rejection of Jesus Christ's eternal deity, virgin birth, bodily resurrection and unique atonement for the sins of the world.

This comes from the "UM Action Briefing" dated April, 2003. I will look to see whether the newsletter is available online.

I believe Bishop Sprague is in deep trouble with the Methodist Church and may be forced to resign. There is a movement under way to get this done, per the following:

". . . it is fundamentally fraudulent for him (Sprague) to attack the traditional Christian faith while serving as Bishop of a Christian church. Decency and integrety require his resignation or removal."

As a member of the United Methodist Church I will contribute financially and as a volunteer worker to get Joe Sprague removed as Bishop.

9 posted on 04/21/2003 10:18:09 AM PDT by toddst
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To: AnAmericanMother
The Methodist church was infiltrated years ago by the communists and liberals. Some of the things that the UMC has supported lately is homosexual marriage, homosexual pastors and chirch leaders, anti-war/anti-U.S. organizations, ad nauseum.
10 posted on 04/21/2003 10:29:48 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: toddst
Gosh, he sounds like OUR homegrown loonybird, Bishop Spong of Newark. But none of the bishops in the Episcopal Church ever had the guts to chastise him. He retired and at last report was writing a cybersex column (I kid you not).

C.S. Lewis knocked these guys off in one in The Great Divorce. His apostate bishop publicly rejects the Creed and it brings him worldly fame, book deals, etc. Given a last chance to repent by a friend who is sent to rescue him from Hell, he turns his back on salvation and goes back to Hell to write a book on how Jesus would have adopted the bishop's views "if he had lived."

Gee, their names even begin with the same two letters. Suppose there's a connection there . . . ? nah. ;-)

11 posted on 04/21/2003 10:38:10 AM PDT by AnAmericanMother (. . . there is nothing new under the sun.)
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To: toddst
I believe Bishop Sprague is in deep trouble with the Methodist Church and may be forced to resign.

I'm pretty sure that went down in flames (no pun intended).

But there are strong movements in the UMC to get the church back to where it belongs. Groups such as "Good News" the Renewal Movement and the Confessing Movement in the UMC are much more conservative and are trying to undo the harm done by liberals like Sprague.

12 posted on 04/21/2003 10:41:02 AM PDT by Corin Stormhands (HHD, FRM, RFA)
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To: rface
There's more if you want it....HERE

No Thanks!!!

13 posted on 04/21/2003 10:50:07 AM PDT by dvan
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To: Jeff Head
If Jesus, John, and others who spoke of His return were liars, then I guess we can't believe other vital doctrines in the Bible, such as salvation, repentance, etc.

A slippery slope. How can Mr. Sprague pick-and-chose doctrines at will?
14 posted on 04/21/2003 11:53:21 AM PDT by CFIIIMEIATP737 (He is Risen!)
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To: rface
read later
15 posted on 04/21/2003 12:20:34 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: CFIIIMEIATP737
If this is the Jesus 1000 year kingdom, I'm the Easter Bunny.


16 posted on 04/21/2003 12:27:57 PM PDT by bmwcyle (Semper Gumby - Always flexible)
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To: LiteKeeper
I am interested in your take.
17 posted on 04/21/2003 12:29:49 PM PDT by rface (Ashland, Missouri)
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To: toddst
As a member of the United Methodist Church I will contribute financially and as a volunteer worker to get Joe Sprague removed as Bishop.

Ad my name to that list, a United Methodist from Arkansas.

18 posted on 04/21/2003 12:34:07 PM PDT by AxelPaulsenJr (Get High on Life, Not Drugs)
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To: AnAmericanMother
That's a great book. Also fun to read.
19 posted on 04/21/2003 12:35:35 PM PDT by altura (I am so sick of these whiney liberals. Shut up!!!)
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To: AnAmericanMother
We just finished studying Spong's last book in our Bible class. (Episcopalian, of course.)

We all hated it, but it did make one think as one repudiated all his arguments. By the way, the only source he cited was himself!! (ha) no footnotes.

Our current Presiding Bishop is a joke, and an annoying one.
20 posted on 04/21/2003 12:37:53 PM PDT by altura (I am so sick of these whiney liberals. Shut up!!!)
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To: toddst
"I believe Bishop Sprague is in deep trouble with the Methodist Church and may be forced to resign. There is a movement under way to get this done....."

Perhaps the safest thing for him to do would be to declare himself gay. This would almost guarantee him a job.

21 posted on 04/21/2003 12:40:13 PM PDT by AlGone2001 (If liberals must lie to advance their agenda, why is liberalism good for me?)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Don't forget "liberation theology" funding all sorts of left-wing communist gangs and dictators, and attempting to ban "militant" hymns (Onward Christian Soldiers). Also, the latest Methodist hymnal is a joke, as its "hymns" equate Christianity with earth-worship and even include songs in other tongues than English. The Methodist bishops and higher church councils have been promulgating blasphemy for YEARS.
22 posted on 04/21/2003 12:41:08 PM PDT by =Intervention= (so freaking sick of the lies...)
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To: =Intervention=
I can't even sit through an entire service at the Methodist Churches anymore. I want to vomit....I get angry - and they make me sing stupid songs that haven't an ounce of inspiration. I might as well be going to a Universalist Unitarian service.

What's the difference between a Unitarian and a United Methodist Church service?

23 posted on 04/21/2003 12:45:53 PM PDT by rface (Ashland, Missouri)
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To: Lysander
It has been long taught at Emory university that the second coming was the resurection.

Is that Methodist? My husband just joined a Methodist church, and I know nothing about Methodism. Can anyone help me out?

24 posted on 04/21/2003 12:52:04 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: toddst
I'm saving this thread while I look for an article from a conference where a female (I think she was a Methodist minsiter but will wait until I find the article)said "we should do away with the story of redemption because who wants to look at a bloody cross"!
25 posted on 04/21/2003 12:56:06 PM PDT by Krodg (We have the ability because the leader in command knows who's in control....God Bless America.)
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To: AnAmericanMother
Gosh, he sounds like OUR homegrown loonybird, Bishop Spong of Newark.

I got confused. I was thinking that (Spong) was this guy.

26 posted on 04/21/2003 12:56:07 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: rface
So in the hereafter, C. Joseph Sprague will be in the "smoking" section.
27 posted on 04/21/2003 12:59:11 PM PDT by N. Theknow
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To: Krodg
"we should do away with the story of redemption because who wants to look at a bloody cross"!

It's a shame these people don't have the guts to just leave the Church...go join some new-age Earth-mother religion if you don't like Christianity.

28 posted on 04/21/2003 1:00:11 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: AxelPaulsenJr
Here is the address of the organization that publishes the newsletter I received:

http://www.ird-renew.org/

This is the Institute on Religion and Democracy. There is a sub-section for Methodists. This is a good place to begin work on removing people like Bishop Sprague from the Methodist Church.

29 posted on 04/21/2003 1:04:39 PM PDT by toddst
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To: stands2reason
Basically, the United Methodist Church is a moderate protestant church that is being split between a liberal leadership and remaining conservative elements. For a while, I'd been considering myself "ex-Methodist" until I found a fairly conservative congregation locally, which I have been attending. For the moment, I've decided to wade in rather than give up. A change in pastor may change my mind again, though.

Ask your husband whether they use the "old fasioned" Doxology (#95) or the new-fangled gender-free Doxology (#94). The latter, or a female minister, seem to be the harbingers of liberalism, in my experience. If there is a conservative female minister in the Methodist Church, I've never heard of them.

30 posted on 04/21/2003 1:35:27 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: stands2reason
I've never understood that, either. Of course a lot of the conservatives have left (including myself, for quite a few years). It was (A) finding a fairly conservative congregation and (B) finding out that there are conservatives within the United Methodist Church putting up a fight that has led me to give it a second chance. I'll have to see how it works out.
31 posted on 04/21/2003 1:38:45 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: stands2reason
You can find a good overview of the United Methodist Church here.
32 posted on 04/21/2003 1:45:49 PM PDT by Question_Assumptions
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To: altura
I'm thinking about starting a campaign of some kind to cut off funding from my parish that goes to the national leadership unless Griswold leaves or recants his apostasy.
33 posted on 04/21/2003 1:52:10 PM PDT by johnb838 (Understand the root causes of American Anger)
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To: stands2reason
"we should do away with the story of redemption because who wants to look at a bloody cross"!

It's a shame these people don't have the guts to just leave the Church...go join some new-age Earth-mother religion if you don't like Christianity


If only someone would tell that to the new Archbishop of Canterbury. Or is that the Chief Druid of Canterbury?
34 posted on 04/21/2003 1:54:23 PM PDT by johnb838 (Understand the root causes of American Anger)
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To: CFIIIMEIATP737
None of those you mentioned were liars ... the deception and lies are coming form those who teach contrary to these most fundamental principles of truth.

You ask how can those folks pick and choose like this?

IMHO, it is because the Truth is not them.

35 posted on 04/21/2003 2:40:23 PM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: Question_Assumptions
The latter, or a female minister, seem to be the harbingers of liberalism, in my experience.

If his minster was female I'd have a cow. He's new to Christianity for the most part, but even he knows better than that. The Minister is male...but he's divorced....his wife was a raging alcoholic and he tried to live with her, but couldn't. I'm not sure that a divorce in that circumstance would be acceptable according to a conservative interpretation of scripture---the only acceptable reason for divorce IIRC, is adultery. I think separation would have been more acceptable. Of course, there are legalities and tax issues that may become a problem.

Myself I agree with Dr. Laura (a Jew) in that divorce is only acceptable in case of adultery, addiction, and abuse. ( BTW I was raised unaffiliated Church of Christ (totally fundamentalist) but no longer practice the faith.) Thanks for your help!

36 posted on 04/21/2003 6:08:44 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: stands2reason
My husband just joined a Methodist church, and I know nothing about Methodism. Can anyone help me out?

Shoot him before it's too late. Better for him to die now while his innocence remains. ;^)

37 posted on 04/23/2003 8:17:08 PM PDT by Sangamon Kid
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To: Sangamon Kid
Shoot him before it's too late. Better for him to die now while his innocence remains. ;^)

Oh, now you're scaring me.

Apropos of nothing, would you happen to know what percentage of serial killers were Church-going Methodists?

38 posted on 04/24/2003 1:18:48 PM PDT by stands2reason
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To: rface
He is the reason I left the Methodist Church here in Illinois. He is a piece of trash and I swear to this day if I see him I will spit in his face.

Leaving the Methodist Church was the best thing I have ever done since I found a church that preaches the Bible not liberalism.

39 posted on 04/24/2003 1:20:58 PM PDT by Dengar01
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To: sharktrager
You cannot be a Christian and deny the resurrection according to Scripture:

..."if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved" (Romans 10:9).

As for the "Second Coming" being the resurrection, Hebrews 9:27-28 puts that to rest:

"And as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment, so Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly awaiting for Him."

The "will appear" is important, because Hebrews would have been written after Christ's death and resurrection.

40 posted on 04/24/2003 1:32:21 PM PDT by scott7278 (Four more years! Four more years!)
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To: AnAmericanMother
I suggest you look for a sect wherein the leaders not only talk the talk, but do their durndest to walk the walk...and encourage their parishioners to follow in the footsteps of Christ. Don't stay in a flock guarded by wolves.
41 posted on 04/24/2003 1:36:57 PM PDT by Frumious Bandersnatch
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To: rface
"What's the difference between a Unitarian and a United Methodist Church service?"

I don't know the difference between the services, but the Unitarians deny the doctrine of the Trinity -- an ancient Arian heresy. The nature of the argument deals with same substance (homo ousion: Trinitarians) vs. like substance (homoi ousion: Arians).

Trinitarians hold that the Son of God, though a distinct person, is of the same nature, essence, and being of the Father -- eternally begotten (not created). Arians believed that the Father created the Son, and that the Son is subordinate to the Father.

This controversy is what brought the Council of Nicea together in 325 A.D. -- this brought about the Nicene Creed, which reflects the basic beliefs of Catholicism, Protestantism, and Eastern Orthodoxy. Homo ousion (same substance) prevailed.

42 posted on 04/24/2003 1:53:01 PM PDT by scott7278 (Four more years! Four more years!)
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To: Dengar01
"Leaving the Methodist Church was the best thing I have ever done since I found a church that preaches the Bible not liberalism."

This is what it's all about.

43 posted on 04/24/2003 1:58:07 PM PDT by scott7278 (Four more years! Four more years!)
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To: Krodg
I had a friend who about 30 years ago was in a Methodist church in Flint Mich. and I believe he said the pastor didn't believe in the virgin birth of Jesus. Methodism has some kind of element internally that seems to lean toward heresy.
44 posted on 04/24/2003 2:03:51 PM PDT by Bob Eimiller
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To: toddst
While your at it-get your church and other Methodist Churches OUT of the National Council of Churches. It is a communist organization overloaded with socialists, pacifists, communists, homosexuals and is so PC it no longer relates to Methodist doctrine, whatsoever. Get your church to stop contributing-we left because ours would not.
45 posted on 04/24/2003 2:03:55 PM PDT by Republic
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To: rface
Tell Mr. Sprague that most of the predictions of Jesus (e.g. the Temple destruction, "you will be persecuted for my name," His church, etc.) have come true (along with many Old Testament predictions).

"Blessed are they who believe, but have not seen."

I'm glad I'm not an atheist, because He will return.

5.56mm

46 posted on 04/24/2003 2:17:08 PM PDT by M Kehoe
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To: smith288
Methodislamist.
47 posted on 04/24/2003 2:19:38 PM PDT by kevao
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To: Republic
10-4, will do what I can.
48 posted on 04/24/2003 2:24:25 PM PDT by toddst
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To: Bob Eimiller
I should have waited to post my earlier comment as it turns out I was incorrect. It was a Presbyterian at a woman's Re-Imaging conference. The event happened several years ago and caused such an outrage that is brought up quite often.

I recently had a discussion with my Methodist friend about her woman pastor and that stuck in my mind.

Sounds like I'm coming down on both denominations now, but I don't mean to. There are bad influences in every church...We need to stick to the Word of God.

49 posted on 04/24/2003 2:42:53 PM PDT by Krodg (We have the ability because the leader in command knows who's in control....God Bless America.)
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To: Blood of Tyrants
Mainstream churches have long passed the mission of saving souls - it doesn't pay all that well.
50 posted on 04/24/2003 2:53:03 PM PDT by Old Professer
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