Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Illegal Aliens Can Be Held Indefinitely, Ashcroft Says
NYTimes ^ | 4/26/03 | RACHEL L. SWARNS

Posted on 04/26/2003 7:17:24 AM PDT by RJCogburn

Attorney General John Ashcroft has ruled that illegal immigrants who have no known links to terrorist groups can be detained indefinitely to address national security concerns.

Mr. Ashcroft was ruling in the case of a Haitian immigrant who had won the right to be released on bail while awaiting a decision on his asylum claim. Mr. Ashcroft did not argue that the man was a security threat, but said that his release and that of others like him "would tend to encourage further surges of mass migration from Haiti by sea, with attendant strains on national security and homeland security resources."

Because immigration judges are part of the Justice Department, rulings made by Mr. Ashcroft must serve as the basis for any decisions.

The decision will have an immediate effect on Haitian immigrants in Florida. But Mr. Ashcroft said the nation's immigration judges should rule similarly in bail hearings involving other illegal immigrants when the government provides evidence that extended detention is needed to protect the country.

It was unclear how widely the policy would be enforced. But outraged advocates for immigrants said it would impose unnecessary hardships on immigrants and asylum seekers who pose no security risk.

This policy shift is the latest effort by the Bush administration to use the detention of immigrants as a tool to address security concerns and prevent terrorist attacks. In March, officials said they would detain people from Iraq and 32 other countries who arrive at airports and border crossings seeking political asylum.

The government has also detained dozens of immigrants without charge as material witnesses in terrorism cases.

This is the first time, however, that officials have decided to detain immigrants who have no links to terrorism in an effort to address broader security concerns. Until now, judges in bail hearings focused on each individual immigrant and whether he or she would return to court or pose any danger to local communities.

Human rights groups, including Amnesty International and the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, sharply criticized the policy shift.

"It's shortsighted, it's wrong and it does not make us safer," said Elisa Massimino, who runs the Washington office of the lawyers group. "What it means is that these people will languish in detention without the opportunity to prove to a judge or anyone else that they don't pose a threat to national security."

David Joseph, the detained Haitian immigrant in question in Mr. Ashcroft's ruling, scrambled to shore last Oct. 29 along with more than 200 other Haitians after their boat ran aground off Miami. Mr. Joseph and many others applied for political asylum.

Immigration advocates and lawmakers from both parties immediately called on the president and Gov. Jeb Bush of Florida to order the Haitians' release. Some passengers have been released on bail, but Mr. Ashcroft's decision will ensure that the rest remain in detention until claims for asylum are decided.

Mr. Ashcroft said his ruling was necessary to discourage mass migration from Haiti, which he described as a staging point for Pakistanis and Palestinians hoping to enter the United States illegally, a charge that was disputed by advocates for immigrants.

He said the Coast Guard was wasting precious resources focusing on Haitians trying to enter the United States by boat. With the war against terrorists draining resources, officials lack the capacity to screen Haitian immigrants individually to determine whether they present national security risks, he said.

"Under these circumstances," Mr. Ashcroft wrote in his decision on April 17, "it is reasonable to make a determination that aliens arriving under the circumstances presented by the Oct. 29 influx should be detained rather than released on bond."

Bill Schulz, the executive director of Amnesty International, said he recognized the government's right to protect the public from terrorism. But he said officials also had an obligation to asylum seekers.

"International standards state that the detention of asylum seekers should normally be avoided and is justified only in limited cases prescribed by law," Mr. Schulz said.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government
KEYWORDS: detention; homelandsecurity; illegalimmigrants; immigration
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last

1 posted on 04/26/2003 7:17:24 AM PDT by RJCogburn
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
At last, someone understands the difference between the constitutional rights of citizens and the PRIVILEGES that we VOLUNTARILY extend to guests in this country.
2 posted on 04/26/2003 7:19:38 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
F**k Amnesty International. They slammed us during the war while remaining conveniently silent on Saddam's crimes. We certainly have a right to make sure illegal aliens are not a threat to our country. Attorney General John Ashcroft's ruling is a step in the right direction. Now let's follow it up by deporting all the illegals already here.
3 posted on 04/26/2003 7:20:04 AM PDT by goldstategop ( In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives On In My Heart Forever)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
This will stop waves of asylum-seeking-bail-jumping liars from entering the country.
4 posted on 04/26/2003 7:20:38 AM PDT by The Old Hoosier (Right makes might.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: The Old Hoosier
Your on the right track, but it goes further: Habeas Corpus is NOT a right, it is specifically declared a PRIVILEGE in the Constitution, and the Constitution states circumstances under which it can be suspended.
5 posted on 04/26/2003 7:24:32 AM PDT by fqued
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
Okay, I agree that non-citizens are not protected under our constitution but I dont think holding illegals in a jail forever is good policy. If we're not going to let them into the country, deport them. We dont need to fill up our jails with people who are not and never will be actual US residents.
6 posted on 04/26/2003 7:36:48 AM PDT by pepsi_junkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
Human rights groups, including Amnesty International and the Lawyers Committee for Human Rights, sharply criticized the policy shift.

A sure sign it is the right policy.

Bill Schulz, the executive director of Amnesty International, said he recognized the government's right to protect the public from terrorism. But he said officials also had an obligation to asylum seekers.

Putting the obligation to asylum seekers above the obligation to protect the public from terrorists is further proof of which side these people are on.

7 posted on 04/26/2003 9:50:40 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
Yup, we've heard this song-and-dance before. First it's illegal immigrants whose rights can be trampled. Then any aliens. Then lo-and-behold! Citizens (remember Juan Padilla?) can be treated the exact same way!

And people keep falling for it, hook, line, and sinker.

8 posted on 04/26/2003 12:07:16 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pepsi_junkie
You're right about not filling up our jails with illegal immigrants. I prefer the idea of warehousing them in desert camps. Nothing cruel mind you, just endless tedium and "processing" that just happens to take a few years to do. When they are fully "processed" they get escorted to the border and given a boot in the butt. No money, no goodies, no freebies, nothing to show for several years in the desert except maybe a really good tan. Then we'll see how many illegals want to come into our country.
9 posted on 04/26/2003 12:10:40 PM PDT by Billy_bob_bob ("He who will not reason is a bigot;He who cannot is a fool;He who dares not is a slave." W. Drummond)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: pepsi_junkie
Okay, I agree that non-citizens are not protected under our constitution but I dont think holding illegals in a jail forever is good policy.

I must have missed that part of the article where they were sentenced to life in prison without parole.

10 posted on 04/26/2003 12:12:40 PM PDT by Go Gordon
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot
Putting the obligation to asylum seekers above the obligation to protect the public from terrorists is further proof of which side these people are on.

From the article:

"Mr. Ashcroft did not argue that the man was a security threat, but said that his release and that of others like him 'would tend to encourage further surges of mass migration from Haiti by sea, with attendant strains on national security and homeland security resources.'"

So now the standards as to what constitutes "national security threats" are getting lower and lower, without so much as a congressional debate. Meanwhile, precedents are being established and strengthened so as to give the Attorney General the power to come up with his own laws as he sees fit, so long has he can make even a remotely plausible claim of national security. Open your eyes a little.

11 posted on 04/26/2003 12:18:22 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: inquest
Open your eyes a little.

Forgive me. Perhaps the All Seeing, All Knowing inquest can enlighten the grasshopper.

Who are we talking about here? Everyday, hardworking, taxpaying citizens of the good old US of A? No!! We are talking about non-citizens who have illegally deposited themselves upon our shores uninvited! Did you not see the part about Middleasterners using Haiti as a jumping off point to the US?

What was that old saying about following one's own advice?

12 posted on 04/26/2003 12:43:26 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot
First of all, can the lame attempts at sarcasm. They don't reflect well on your intelligence.

Secondly, we know perfectly well that illegal immigrants are also used as a "jumping off point" for the administration to introduce its arbitrary rule to the citizenry - witness the detention of Juan Padilla as an "illegal combatant". They start with aliens; they don't stop with them.

13 posted on 04/26/2003 12:58:37 PM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: Go Gordon
They can be held indefinitely, that is the Justice Department's position as reflected in this article.
14 posted on 04/26/2003 1:49:59 PM PDT by pepsi_junkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: inquest
First of all, can the lame attempts at sarcasm. They don't reflect well on your intelligence.

Second of all, can the condescension. It reveals your arrogance.

I thought Padilla WAS an alien but that doesn't matter. You assume a demonic deception on the part of this administration, one I consider the most honest we have had for awhile, at least since the last Bush, to impose a police state. You also seem to greatly underestimate, or not appreciate, the danger posed by these terrorists in illegal (and legal) alien clothes. I think the danger to our personal liberties is overstated in relation to the Patriot Act and that the governmental transgressions such as the creation of "hate crimes" and the suing of asbestos companies, tobacco companies, plus all sorts of political correctness in government, to be much more restrictive on our personal freedoms than any attempt to find and restrain terrorists.

15 posted on 04/26/2003 4:01:10 PM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 13 | View Replies]

To: RJCogburn
deport illegals asap...
16 posted on 04/26/2003 4:08:36 PM PDT by Bill Davis FR
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: pepsi_junkie
They can be held indefinitely, that is the Justice Department's position as reflected in this article

I am sorry, but since when was Aschcroft named Herr Fuehrer? Everyone in this country deserves the right to due process before a legally competent judge. Everyone. In those cases where national security is genuinely at stake I do not have a problem with it being a military tribunal or special judge. But the notion of an INS bureaucrat incarcerating someone "Indefinitely" pending some other bureaucratic outcome is too frightening for words.

17 posted on 04/26/2003 4:14:01 PM PDT by AndyJackson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: AndyJackson
I agree with you partially. Because they are not citizens, I tend to agree that they are not entitled to the civil rights we citizens are, and that means they could indeed be imprisoned without trial. But I dont think its morally the right thing to do, America is better than the kind of nations that create gulags and concentration camps. I say if illegals are coming in, catch them, process them, and deport them ASAP.

Of course, they will keep coming back with this approach, so deport them to Chile (the extreme south of South America) and let them start walking, it'll be 10 years before we see them again.

18 posted on 04/26/2003 9:18:27 PM PDT by pepsi_junkie
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Mind-numbed Robot
President Bush has been all but encouraging illegal Mexican immigration to this country. And yet this honest administration is now claiming that they need to have the power to indefinitely detain people - not even take the trouble to prosecute, but simply detain them as long as they feel like - for the sake of discouraging illegal immigration. Well gee, maybe if they weren't offering them Social Security bennies we wouldn't have such a huge problem in the first place.

You also seem to greatly underestimate, or not appreciate, the danger posed by these terrorists in illegal (and legal) alien clothes.

Now who's being condescending? I pointed out to you that not even Ashcroft was saying that this guy was a security threat. Ergo, there's absolutely no reason he couldn't have prosecuted him under the laws of this country. But it seems all he has to do is utter the word "terrorism" and everything he does, no matter how outrageous, becomes perfectly acceptable in your view. Oh yeah, I forgot, it's because he's so honest.

And yes, Padilla was a citizen, and yes it matters: You said at #12: "Who are we talking about here? Everyday, hardworking, taxpaying citizens of the good old US of A? No!! We are talking about non-citizens who have illegally deposited themselves upon our shores uninvited!" If the Attorney General can just start making up the law as he goes when it comes to aliens, he can do it when it comes to citizens.

19 posted on 04/27/2003 9:15:40 AM PDT by inquest
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: inquest
For you:

Definition of the Slippery Slope Logical Fallacy

Enjoy!

20 posted on 04/27/2003 9:41:34 AM PDT by Charles H. (The_r0nin) (There's a direct relationship between how tightly one holds a belief and how stupid that belief is)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-22 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson