Posted on 04/27/2003 12:31:21 PM PDT by quidnunc
For the past ten years, the liveliest and most interesting debate within conservatism has raged between two camps of Straussians the so-called "Western Straussians," clustering around Harry V. Jaffa and the scholars associated with the Claremont Institute, and the "Eastern Straussians," among whose leading figures are Walter Berns, Allan Bloom, and Thomas Pangle (although the distinction is more a state of mind than of geography there are "Western Straussians" in the East and vice versa). In books, scholarly essays, letters, columns, and not least in the pages of National Review, the two sides have clashed occasionally with angry words and personal vituperation over the nature of political philosophy, the character of America, and the status of revealed religion. The majority of Straussians, to be sure, have remained either in the middle or on the sidelines of disputes, watching them with a mixture of fascination and regret. But however sharp the personal exchanges may have been, the issues involved are of supreme importance for the future of American conservatism.
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Perhaps most profoundly, the disagreement concerns the meaning of political philosophy, the central theme of Strauss's writings. Is political philosophy, as the "Easterners" maintain, a politic presentation of philosophy, basically a way of shielding philosophers' radical questioning from the disapproval of the many, of society? Or is political philosophy meant also and emphatically to offer philosophical guidance for political life? The point at issue is the meaning of the famous "Socratic turn" in philosophy, which boils down to the question of the status of morality. Does the philosopher dwell in a world beyond good and evil, or is morality a good in itself that he too must respect?
Taking morality seriously involves taking patriotism seriously, and so it is not surprising that the most obvious disagreement between the two Straussian camps concerns America. Now, the Straussians have helped to effect, over the past thirty years, a remarkable revival of scholarship on America, particularly on American political thought. Martin Diamond, Harry Jaffa, and Herbert Storing, to name the most prominent, showed that it was both necessary and proper to try to understand the Founders, Abraham Lincoln, and other American statesmen as they have understood themselves; that the condescending revisionism of Charles A. Beard, Carl Becker, Richard Hofstadter, and other historians would not stand critical scrutiny. Out of this common rejection of Marxist and progressive history, however, has emerged a significant split between the Straussians over what the Founders intended the American way of life to be.
The Eastern Straussians see America as fundamentally "modern," by which they mean that America stands for the renunciation equally of the wisdom of classical political philosophy and of Biblical revelation. Walter Berns, Thomas Pangle, and others assert that America is fundamentally Hobbesian. In other words, America was conceived in hedonism, atheism, and materialism, and dedicated to the pursuit of comfortable self-preservation. However glorious the Founding may have been, the nation organized on this founding principle had sooner or later to abandon all glory in favor of a descent into the life of self-interestedness. As George Will, profoundly influenced by this line of analysis, puts it, America was "ill-founded," doomed to moral and political decay by the logic of its own principles.
In contrast, the Western Straussians see America as broadly continuous with the classical and Biblical traditions. Indeed, in some respects they see it as perfecting those traditions, giving due public regard for the first time in history to the "laws of nature and of nature's God" i.e., both to the moral common ground and to the moral and theoretical disagreements between the great defining principles of the West: Reason and Revelation, Athens and Jerusalem.
This is pretty abstruse stuff.
All I can say about the p[aleo-con philosophy is "That way lies madness!")
And a little stupid too. Paleo, Neo, pink, green.....Over all, it beats the vision of the (self) annointed.
To understand the Paleo case requires familiarity with Greek and Roman thought and the development of the European legal and religious tradition, and an historical imagination far beyond that associated with the standard version of history. (Called the "Whig version of history" by some Paleos, though the wit behind this description is lost on most.)
If you are of curious nature, interested in how things actually work, and seek the truth, the Paleo tradition has much to offer.
Moreover it is a ruling elite based on class, not ability.
This is anathma to American principles.
France is governed by a ruling elite, the European union is governed by a ruling elite; that should be enough said.
The proof is in the pudding: paleos seem to be more than a little too comfortable with the idea of fascist dictators such a Francisco Franco for my peace of mind.
And a little stupid too. Paleo, Neo, pink, green.....
That I won't deny. While there is a Hillary out there in the wings, the neo/paleo debate should be pretty much out of mind. Sort of like arguing about how to arrange the coffee table while a bulldozer is heading for your house.
THANK YOU!
Everyone needs to keep this in mind, especially as we get closer to election time! <p. Tia
Oh, my. Are you pulling my leg? You believe there is no ruling elite?Or if there is, it is not based on class? All of politics is about making "our" would be ruling elite replace the existing one, or about keeping "our" ruling elite in it's position. And of course "as a class".
"One man one vote" cannot survive. Either the left will disenfranchise us, or we disenfranchise them.
Moreover it is a ruling elite based on class, not ability.
I don't see that. First, all countries are governed by ruling elites. Secondly the neo-cons are very much an elite and aspire to rule as one. Thirdly, there's much emphasis among the paleos on decentralizing power and bringing it back to local levels. Finally, it's hard to know just who to take as representatives of either neo-conservatism or paleo-conservatism. Those who present themselves as ideological leaders, naturally want to run things.
I would hope that America would reject the self-appointed leaders of both groups. Too often the paleo intellectuals show themselves to be foolish and obnoxious, the neo intellectuals to be ambitious and power hungry. In the end, the paleos are wrong about the Declaration of Independence and human rights. But there is much to be said for the paleos criticism of the neo-faction. Arguing against basic freedoms -- if that's what the paleos are doing -- is wrong, but it's sometimes necessary and praiseworthy to point out how the rhetoric of freedom can be used to increase domination and control.
One thing that should be noted is the neocons using some of the more obnoxious paleo statements to attack those who disagree with themon specific policy questions. More here.
One sees echos of this in East Coast high society where 'old money' looks down on nouveau-riche arrivistes and denies them entry into their social circles.
Your sweeping claim has the same validity as "All Republicans are racist" and "All Conservatives are Nazis" and "You are a Fascist." In fact, Paleos are mostly interested in a return to Constitutional Government, with limited, enumerated, and explicit powers, and in how it can be kept that way, that is, to keep the genie of tyranny locked away forever. That this is quixotic goes without saying.
If you want to learn about politics and such read Cicero. Nothing has changed since then except technology.
Once a man was sentenced to immediate death by the King. The man told the King that if the King would spare him, the man would teach the King's favorite horse to sing. "Teach my horse to sing?" said the king. "Oh, yes. It will take only one year." said the man. The king agreed to the bargain.
The man sang to the King's horse every night. One night, one of the stablehands asked him if he really thought the horse would learn to sing. The man replied,"A year is a long time. I could die. The king could die. The horse could learn to sing."
Of course, putting all your eggs in such a basket is only prudent if the only other choice is immediate death.
You keep nattering on about philosopers and ancient Greek and Roman worldviews.
May I remind you that both societies were heavily dependent upon slavery for their functioning?
Look at Old Europe, the countries of which are prone to ordering their societies acording to the dictates of philosophers.
This tendency gave us just in the last 100 years fascism, Marxism/communism and most lately postmodernism which along with its handmaiden, multiculturalism insists there is no such thing as objective truth.
So while studying the ramblings philosophers may be useful for liberal-arts students, there is very little there applicable for modern statecraft.
A pox upon all philosophers.
With enormous risk of being uncharitable, your point of view reminds me of Henry Ford's "History is bunk." That reminds me of "Ignorance is bliss." If I were mean spirited it would remind me of "Freedom is Slavery."
What about it?
Jason Kauppinen wrote: Or would you prefer to have statesmen who make decisions based on having a soothsayer cut open a chicken and do an entrail reading?
This is a specious argument and you know it.
Allow me to bring it down to an even more basic level.
Which ancient philosophers do you take into account before you decide which car to buy or how to present a proposal to your boss?
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