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Paris and Berlin prepare alliance to rival Nato (EXCUSE ME? ALERT)
The Times ^ | April 28, 2003 | Charles Bremner

Posted on 04/27/2003 2:59:07 PM PDT by MadIvan

EUROPE’S self-inflicted wounds over Iraq will be on display tomorrow when the leaders of France and Germany — dubbed the “Axis of Weasels” in America — start to try to lay the groundwork for a European Union military alliance that would compete with Nato.

At a meeting in Brussels with the Prime Ministers of Belgium and Luxembourg, President Chirac and Gerhard Schröder, the German Chancellor, want to clear the way for a common European defence system that would start with a core of volunteer states.

Although the Germans have qualms about a confrontation with Nato, the French are not hiding their aim to achieve their long-standing goal of unhitching the United States from European defence. This has become more pressing with the reported plans of the US to punish France for its stand on the war in Iraq by excluding it from Nato decision-making.

The mechanism for founding what would be a unified EU military force was tabled last week without much fanfare by the chiefs of the convention that is drafting a new EU constitution. The arrangement, akin to the foundation of monetary union, would be far more ambitious than the existing European security and defence policy that was launched by Britain and France in 1998. That policy, which includes a rapid reaction force, is limited to humanitarian, peacekeeping and crisis management in co-operation with Nato.

Although Guy Verhofstadt, the Belgian Prime Minister, proposed the mini-summit months ago, London and other EU capitals view the Brussels initiative as akin to provocation by the four most active opponents of American policy over Iraq.

Despite denials from Paris and Berlin, the session looks like a manoeuvre by French-led “old Europe” against the pro-Atlantic axis, led by Britain and Spain and featuring new EU states, which Donald Rumsfeld, the US Defence Secretary, called “new Europe”.

Britain, which has the EU’s most powerful Armed Forces, was not invited. Nor were the leaders of the EU’s other main pro-Atlantic states — Spain, Italy and the Netherlands.

Geoff Hoon, the Defence Secretary, said that the Brussels meeting “risks sending a message of division about the the creation of a defence policy separate from Nato”. Britain was adamant that the EU’s present security arrangement had nothing to do with a common defence, which was the domain of Nato, Mr Hoon told a French newspaper.

Britain is especially opposed to the French-backed idea of creating an EU military general staff, but it supports the view, shared by France and the others, that the EU needs to raise defence spending and to create a centralised arms agency, which would avoid duplication and help competition with the American defence industry.

While Europe’s split over Iraq has given impetus to the defence initiative, the project has been looming since the 1950s and in particular since President de Gaulle took France out of the Nato military structure in 1967. Differences over autonomy from Nato were buried and not resolved after M Chirac and Tony Blair launched their security initiative in St Malo in 1998.

The confrontation with the United States over Iraq was seen by M Chirac and his allies as a coming-of-age test that the expanding union had failed. To become a real power, the EU must, in their eyes, define itself as a “balance” against the United States. An independent defence force is a primary condition for confirming Europe’s identity as more than an economic bloc, they say.

The offer by several EU states and future members from the former Communist Bloc to send troops to help in the US-led occupation of Iraq is seen by the French as a setback to this ambition.

Extending the defence concept over the weekend, Michele Alliot-Marie, the French Defence Minister, sought to involve Russia, the ally of France and Germany in the anti-war front over Iraq. On a visit to Moscow, she said: “Now that a European defence is becoming reality, it is important that Russia should be associated with the planning work that we are carrying out.”

Britain and other opponents of the plan point out that even with French power, the proposed four-nation core marshals only 35 per cent of EU defence spending.

Britain is likely to oppose inclusion in the new constitution of the machinery for creating a defence alliance. Tabled by Valéry Giscard d’Estaing, who heads the convention, last week, the idea would be that “coalitions of the willing” among EU states could band together to start a military alliance that would be open to all who later desired to join.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Germany; Government; News/Current Events; US: District of Columbia; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: axisofweasels; blair; bush; chirac; defence; eu; france; germany; nato; schroeder; uk; us; war
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As this article rightly points out, Britain has the most powerful military in Europe. Any alliance without Britain and America is doomed to be powerless. Except among the bureaucrats, apparently.

Regards, Ivan


1 posted on 04/27/2003 2:59:07 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: alnick; knews_hound; faithincowboys; hillary's_fat_a**; redbaiter; MizSterious; Krodg; ...
Bump!
2 posted on 04/27/2003 2:59:19 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Quite
3 posted on 04/27/2003 3:03:26 PM PDT by annyokie
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To: MadIvan
What good would it do them anyway? They've all proven what a bunch of *(&^%#$%! (insert your own insult) they are. If there was a conflict that arose, what would they do? Sit around and discuss it for a few months - then what?
4 posted on 04/27/2003 3:04:03 PM PDT by reformed_dem (For office use only)
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To: MadIvan
When the French learn of their leaders' complicity with the Saddam Hussein reign of terror, will they demand regime change in France or will they surrender what's left of their common sense too?
5 posted on 04/27/2003 3:04:36 PM PDT by CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
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To: MadIvan
This is a way to get the other european countries to buy french military products. Guess they had to find another customer since Iraq is out of the market.

Hang on Ivan, you can expect a European Defense Tax in the very near future.

6 posted on 04/27/2003 3:06:32 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: MadIvan
Let then try and form an alliance. Lets see how effective they really are without the United States and British military behind it. Especially in the arena of "Human Rights" that they, oh so care about.

Imagine the Weasel Alliance trying to be relevent compared to Britian and America? Wonder how fast they will surrender in the face of opposition? :-P
7 posted on 04/27/2003 3:12:02 PM PDT by Simmy
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To: MadIvan
If Chirac were short, I would believe he has a Napoleon complex. Since he's not, I suppose we can ascribe his ego to a de Gaulle complex, ass and brain interchangeable.
8 posted on 04/27/2003 3:12:07 PM PDT by DeFault User
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To: McGavin999
Hang on Ivan, you can expect a European Defense Tax in the very near future.

I'm not paying it.

Regards, Ivan

9 posted on 04/27/2003 3:12:37 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Bunch of UN wannabes.
10 posted on 04/27/2003 3:14:17 PM PDT by airborne
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To: CROSSHIGHWAYMAN
Remember, a substantial portion of the French electorate backed Chirac's coziness with Saddam. I doubt it will make any difference.

Regards, Ivan

11 posted on 04/27/2003 3:15:26 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: DeFault User
France does not participate in the military side of NATO. I'm guessing they think if they start their own club, they'll get to run it. Will be worth watching Germany's reaction if that is the case.
12 posted on 04/27/2003 3:17:27 PM PDT by pacpam
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To: MadIvan
Hang on Ivan, you can expect a European Defense Tax in the very near future.

I'm not paying it.


It will probably be another stealth tax.
13 posted on 04/27/2003 3:17:32 PM PDT by widgysoft (< Woo and Yay! >)
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To: MadIvan
Screw the French.
14 posted on 04/27/2003 3:17:53 PM PDT by cardinal4 (The Senate Armed Services Comm; the Chinese pipeline into US secrets)
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To: widgysoft
If so, then the Tories ought to make it an issue. It's one thing to pump more money into failed and stupid schemes in Britain, it's quite another to be keeping the French military in vin ordinaire and field bidets.

Regards, Ivan

15 posted on 04/27/2003 3:19:15 PM PDT by MadIvan
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To: MadIvan
Paris and Berlin prepare alliance to rival Nato

They tried that in 1940. It didn't take.

16 posted on 04/27/2003 3:20:16 PM PDT by Tribune7
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To: MadIvan
Oh! Please,please,please. Let's find some way to
have a military confrontation between NATO and the Bratwurst-Croissant Military Super Power.
Buwhahahahahahahahaha!
17 posted on 04/27/2003 3:29:14 PM PDT by American Jingo
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To: MadIvan
They (frogs and krauts)have been trying to put together a rapid reaction brigade since the early 90's, I think they deployed to Paris once, to practice marching under the tree line champs elysees.
18 posted on 04/27/2003 3:33:18 PM PDT by dts32041 (The power to tax, once conceded, has no limits; it continues until it destroys.- RAH)
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To: MadIvan
If they want to make something 'to rival Nato' let them. They will just have an exorbinantly expensive organization that in the end does nothing.

There are enough peacenicks and euroweenies over there to ensure that all they do is politically defend every dictator on the planet. They are already doing this. It will just be more expensive for them.

19 posted on 04/27/2003 3:33:43 PM PDT by maui_hawaii
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To: MadIvan
"This has become more pressing with the reported plans of the US to punish France for its stand on the war in Iraq by excluding it from Nato decision-making."

So? France should have a say in NATO which is directly in proportion to it's contribution to NATO. Which is nothing but grief. Only insanity can justify allowing such NATO decision making power to a country which supplies NOTHING militarily (and military is NATO's function) and consorts with evil dictators.

Jaques and Gerhardt seem determined to reconstitute the Holy Roman Empire. In other words, they apire to become the dictating power over the entire world. They're not much different than the Islamikazis who want to take over the world. Their methods are a little different, but the fundimental goal appears to be the same.

Oh, and a few months ago, Gerhardt promised that Germany and her friend France WILL protect EUrope from the enormous terrorist attacks they kept insisting would come if the coalition attacked Iraq (though they also said Saddam has nothing to do with terrorists)

20 posted on 04/27/2003 3:34:02 PM PDT by cake_crumb (UN Resolutions=Very Expensive, Very SCRATCHY Toilet Paper)
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