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Gibson's religious beliefs come under scrutiny
Los Angeles Times (by way of PittsburghLIVE.com) ^ | April 28, 2003 | Bettijane Levine

Posted on 04/28/2003 2:45:24 PM PDT by Jacob Kell

HOLLYWOOD -- Mel Gibson's upcoming film "The Passion" is being questioned by scholars who worry that the film -- which they have not yet seen -- might fan religious animosity and misunderstanding. The movie, which depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus, features actors speaking only in Latin and Aramaic.

The controversy swirling around Gibson, his film and even his personal religious beliefs is built largely on conjecture. It is based on the few comments Gibson has made about the movie, which he claims will be historically accurate. It also is based on a magazine article about a church the actor is building in Agoura Hills, Calif. The article quotes his father, who claims that the Holocaust never happened and that the World Trade Center was destroyed by remote control.

(Excerpt) Read more at pittsburghlive.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Miscellaneous; Philosophy
KEYWORDS: catholicism; gibson; judaism; melgibson; passion; traditionalist
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1 posted on 04/28/2003 2:45:24 PM PDT by Jacob Kell
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To: Jacob Kell; Stingray51
"...scholars who worry that the film -- which they have not yet seen..."

Does one need to read any more than this?

2 posted on 04/28/2003 2:48:19 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Jacob Kell
The more controversy, the more viewers.
3 posted on 04/28/2003 2:49:31 PM PDT by dark_lord
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To: Jacob Kell
Korn says he will wait "a suitable amount of time" for Gibson to respond to the request for a panel of scholars to read the script. "If he doesn't respond, the controversy will certainly heat up," he says. "We are all very vigilant about things like this."

The gall of these people is unbelievable. Basically he is saying "We have made baseless accusations against you. In order to clear them up, you must do as we say so that we can get some more press out of this."

4 posted on 04/28/2003 2:52:49 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: Jacob Kell
Jews and Catholics are concerned, for example, that Gibson's film might "blame the Jews for the death of Jesus," something the Second Vatican Council expressly forbids.

How will anyone know, since the film will be completely in Latin and Aramaic (with no subtitles)?

5 posted on 04/28/2003 2:53:15 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: Jacob Kell
Liberals are evil.
6 posted on 04/28/2003 2:56:12 PM PDT by moyden2000
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To: Jacob Kell
The article quotes his father, who claims that the Holocaust never happened and that the World Trade Center was destroyed by remote control.

A former Spotlight reader, no doubt. ....And a current Al Jazeera one.

7 posted on 04/28/2003 2:59:31 PM PDT by Mr. Mojo
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To: onedoug
ping
8 posted on 04/28/2003 3:04:14 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: Rodney King
"....respond to the request for a panel of scholars to read the script" in a movie about Jesus. I wonder if the irony of this has escaped Korn and company.

I also wonder if Mel knows how to say "bite me" in Latin and Arabic...

9 posted on 04/28/2003 3:05:04 PM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: Jacob Kell
So the race is on to discredit Mel Gibson as much as possible before his film comes out. Now, had he portrayed, say, a homosexual Jesus, we would be reading quite a different persective in the LaLa Times.
10 posted on 04/28/2003 3:05:27 PM PDT by Scothia (If you pray for rain, prepare to deal with some mud.)
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To: tracer
"Arabic" = Arameic"....
11 posted on 04/28/2003 3:06:05 PM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: tracer
"Arameic" = Aramaic.... (D-OH!! D-OH!!))
12 posted on 04/28/2003 3:06:56 PM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: Rodney King
Well, given that the director/producer is building his own private church building, for the renegade sect his wacko father belongs to, which church "will not be open to the public" (a radically novel concept for a purportedly "traditionalist" catholic church), I'm pretty confident that any religiously themed film that he financed out of his own pocket is going to be on the wacko side. Just like if I heard that Martha Burk was producing and directing a film about the modern women's rights movement -- would I really need to see the film before deciding it's going to be an idiotic piece of socialist trash?
13 posted on 04/28/2003 3:08:28 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: My2Cents
Not to worry, The Pope signed off on this years ago.....
14 posted on 04/28/2003 3:08:59 PM PDT by tracer (/b>)
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To: Jacob Kell
(now i shout)

THIS HAS GONE FAR ENOUGH. NO ONE CAN ATTACK MEL GIBSON, NO ONE.

I HAVE ATTENDED -0- MOVIES AT A THEATER IN THE PAST 20 YEARS. WHAT I THINK I WILL LIKE I BUY, RENT OR WAIT FOR TV RELEASE. IF I REALLY LIKE IT I GET BOTH VCR AND DVD FOR HOME USE.

MEL'S NEW MOVIE MAY OR MAY NOT BE GOOD, I WILL BE THE JUDGE OF THAT FOR MYSELF, THANK YOU.

15 posted on 04/28/2003 3:20:21 PM PDT by ido_now
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To: Jacob Kell
"The movie, which depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus..."
Well, some of us would dispute this particular statement, since we believe his life is ongoing. Perhaps it would be better stated the last 12 hours before he was crucified.
16 posted on 04/28/2003 3:24:20 PM PDT by Grammy
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To: Grammy
. . . some of us would dispute this particular statement, since we believe his life is ongoing. Perhaps it would be better stated the last 12 hours before he was crucified.

10-4! I look forward to this film, but will likely wait for the DVD as I dislike viewing a "movie" in a theater full of people who can't seem to be quiet and pay attention beyond, oh thirty seconds or so.

17 posted on 04/28/2003 3:32:51 PM PDT by toddst
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To: Scothia
This is just another example about how Christianity is being watered down by the Atheist Left. Christianity must be non-offensive to everyone...yes including the devil himself. I mean, mention the name Jesus and wow!...out comes the Atheist Left. I mean, the death of Christ has already been replaced with a rabbit and His birth has been replaced by a flying deer named Rudolph because even Santa is too religious. The next thing you know Christ will be know as your pet rock because the animal rights activists will find it offensive because the bird and the elk feel neglected with all the attention going to the rabbit and the deer. Shew! So much for religious freedom. You don't like it? Don't see it!
18 posted on 04/28/2003 3:33:49 PM PDT by SQUID
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Private chapels are a long tradition in Europe. Believe me, if I had the money I would have one myself, given how wacko my denomination has become.

I think you are misunderstanding. Gibson is making a movie that is historically and theologically correct. The granola contingent doesn't like it, because it probably won't conform to their watered down version of the Gospel.

Judging from the liberal hysteria, the early cut must be very good. I am going to see it.

19 posted on 04/28/2003 3:38:47 PM PDT by Miss Marple
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To: Jacob Kell
I cannot wait to see this movie. Mel and his father know a whole lot more of what is going on in the world than most people realize. Pass the popcorn!
20 posted on 04/28/2003 3:40:52 PM PDT by floridarocks
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To: Jacob Kell
aI can't wait to see this movie. I'm just guessing but it may be that on opening night, the theatre will be packed to the gills with several Bible Study classes from our church.

The "panel of scholars" comments are so thick with irony that you can taste it. Try it, it tastes like chicken....no wait.....more like gator. Pecan wood barbecued gator.....

21 posted on 04/28/2003 3:52:50 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: GovernmentShrinker
(a radically novel concept for a purportedly "traditionalist" catholic church),

Is this the "Resurrection" of Father Coughlin?

22 posted on 04/28/2003 3:57:46 PM PDT by elbucko
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To: GovernmentShrinker
There are many private chapels in Texas, many of them quite beautiful. We are going to be building our own, open timber frame with grape vines woven into the roof. One of my choir buddies ( an engineer) is designing it for us and we hope to have a community "chapel raising" when the time comes.
23 posted on 04/28/2003 3:59:23 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: Jacob Kell
When he has spoken about it publicly, his remarks have been somewhat cryptic. In a March appearance on Eternal Word Television Network, he said, "This is not a Christian versus Jewish thing. '(Jesus) came into the world and it knew him not.' Looking at Christ's crucifixion, I look first at my own culpability in that."

What is "somewhat cryptic" about that remark? Does the reporter need it translated into Aramaic or Latin?

24 posted on 04/28/2003 4:02:09 PM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
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To: Jacob Kell
Mel Gibson's father may be a crank and anti-semite. I can't see how the son is to blame for it, and the article gives no evidence that he holds his father's views.
25 posted on 04/28/2003 4:03:36 PM PDT by dighton (Amen-Corner Hatchet Team, Nasty Little Clique, Vulgar Horde)
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To: windcliff
"Come what come may,
Time, and the hour
run through the roughest day."
26 posted on 04/28/2003 4:04:16 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: GovernmentShrinker
The grape vines will be, of course, Cynthiana.
27 posted on 04/28/2003 4:05:41 PM PDT by TexanToTheCore
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To: GovernmentShrinker
Well, given that the director/producer is building his own private church building, for the renegade sect his wacko father belongs to, which church "will not be open to the public" (a radically novel concept for a purportedly "traditionalist" catholic church), I'm pretty confident that any religiously themed film that he financed out of his own pocket is going to be on the wacko side. Just like if I heard that Martha Burk was producing and directing a film about the modern women's rights movement -- would I really need to see the film before deciding it's going to be an idiotic piece of socialist trash?

There is a huge difference. Martha Burke is a wacko, so it would be safe to assume that any movie she did would be wacko. You are saying that because Mel's dad is wakcy, that therefore Mel is wacky, which is a decidingly prejudicial and un-american way of looking at the world, especially for someone who purports to be concerned about a movie being judgemental.

28 posted on 04/28/2003 4:18:23 PM PDT by Rodney King (No, we can't all just get along.)
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To: toddst
...I dislike viewing a "movie" in a theater full of people who can't seem to be quiet and pay attention beyond, oh thirty seconds or so.

Gee. Where do you see your movies? The few I have seen lately have been in quiet movie theaters. Maybe you should come here to San Diego...

29 posted on 04/28/2003 4:18:25 PM PDT by It's me
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Comment #30 Removed by Moderator

To: Rodney King
For those who would like a translation, I think this is close.
==============\
The Holy Bible: King James Version. 2000.

The Gospel according to
St. John
19

 
1  Then Pilate therefore took Jesus, and scourged him.
 
2  And the soldiers platted a crown of thorns, and put it on his head, and they put on him a purple robe,
 
3  and said, Hail, King of the Jews! and they smote him with their hands.
 
4  Pilate therefore went forth again, and saith unto them, Behold, I bring him forth to you, that ye may know that I find no fault in him.
 
5  Then came Jesus forth, wearing the crown of thorns, and the purple robe. And Pilate saith unto them, Behold the man!
 
6  When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Take ye him, and crucify him: for I find no fault in him.
 
7  The Jews answered him, We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God.
 
8  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he was the more afraid;
 
9  and went again into the judgment hall, and saith unto Jesus, Whence art thou? But Jesus gave him no answer.
 
10  Then saith Pilate unto him, Speakest thou not unto me? knowest thou not that I have power to crucify thee, and have power to release thee?
 
11  Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
 
12  ¶ And from thenceforth Pilate sought to release him: but the Jews cried out, saying, If thou let this man go, thou art not Caesar's friend: whosoever maketh himself a king speaketh against Caesar.
 
13  When Pilate therefore heard that saying, he brought Jesus forth, and sat down in the judgment seat in a place that is called the Pavement, but in the Hebrew, Gab'batha.
 
14  And it was the preparation of the passover, and about the sixth hour: and he saith unto the Jews, Behold your King!
 
15  But they cried out, Away with him, away with him, crucify him. Pilate saith unto them, Shall I crucify your King? The chief priests answered, We have no king but Caesar.
 
16  Then delivered he him therefore unto them to be crucified. And they took Jesus, and led him away.
 

The Crucifixion
Mt. 27.32-50 · Mk. 15.21-37 · Lk. 23.26-49
17  ¶ And he bearing his cross went forth into a place called the place of a skull, which is called in the Hebrew Gol'gotha:
 
18  where they crucified him, and two others with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
 
19  And Pilate wrote a title, and put it on the cross. And the writing was, JESUS OF NAZARETH THE KING OF THE JEWS.
 
20  This title then read many of the Jews; for the place where Jesus was crucified was nigh to the city: and it was written in Hebrew, and Greek, and Latin.
 
21  Then said the chief priests of the Jews to Pilate, Write not, The King of the Jews; but that he said, I am King of the Jews.
 
22  Pilate answered, What I have written I have written.
 
23  ¶ Then the soldiers, when they had crucified Jesus, took his garments, and made four parts, to every soldier a part; and also his coat: now the coat was without seam, woven from the top throughout.
 
24  They said therefore among themselves, Let us not rend it, but cast lots for it, whose it shall be: that the Scripture might be fulfilled, which saith,
 
        
They parted my raiment among them,
and for my vesture they did cast lots. Ps. 22.18
  These things therefore the soldiers did.
25  ¶ Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cle'ophas, and Mary Mag'dalene.
 
26  When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!
 
27  Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own home.
 
28  ¶ After this, Jesus knowing that all things were now accomplished, that the Scripture might be fulfilled, saith, I thirst.
 
29  Now there was set a vessel full of vinegar: and they filled a sponge with vinegar, and put it upon hyssop, and put it to his mouth. Ps. 69.21
 
30  When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.
 

Jesus' Side Pierced
31  ¶ The Jews therefore, because it was the preparation, that the bodies should not remain upon the cross on the sabbath day, (for that sabbath day was a high day,) besought Pilate that their legs might be broken, and that they might be taken away.
 
32  Then came the soldiers, and brake the legs of the first, and of the other which was crucified with him.
 
33  But when they came to Jesus, and saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs:
 
34  but one of the soldiers with a spear pierced his side, and forthwith came there out blood and water.
 
35  And he that saw it bare record, and his record is true; and he knoweth that he saith true, that ye might believe.
 
36  For these things were done, that the Scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken. Ex. 12.46 · Num. 9.12 · Ps. 34.20
 
37  And again another Scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced. Zech. 12.10 · Rev. 1.7
 

The Burial of Jesus
Mt. 27.57-61 · Mk. 15.42-47 · Lk. 23.50-56
38  ¶ And after this Joseph of Arimathe'a, being a disciple of Jesus, but secretly for fear of the Jews, besought Pilate that he might take away the body of Jesus: and Pilate gave him leave. He came therefore, and took the body of Jesus.
 
39  And there came also Nicode'mus, which at the first came to Jesus by night, Joh. 3.1, 2 and brought a mixture of myrrh and aloes, about a hundred pound weight.
 
40  Then took they the body of Jesus, and wound it in linen clothes with the spices, as the manner of the Jews is to bury.
 
41  Now in the place where he was crucified there was a garden; and in the garden a new sepulchre, wherein was never man yet laid.
 
42  There laid they Jesus therefore because of the Jews' preparation day; for the sepulchre was nigh at hand.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

31 posted on 04/28/2003 4:28:39 PM PDT by ex-snook (American jobs need balanced trade - WE BUY FROM YOU, YOU BUY FROM US)
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To: My2Cents
How will anyone know, since the film will be completely in Latin and Aramaic (with no subtitles)?,

While there aren't many out there who understand spoken Aramic, there are many who understand Latin. Including in both cases many Jesuits, other Roman Catholics, and other religious scholars. If the film is anti-semitic, it will come out when it is shown, but until then, these critics need to get a life.

32 posted on 04/28/2003 4:28:57 PM PDT by El Gato
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To: My2Cents
Truth hurts don't it?
33 posted on 04/28/2003 4:33:23 PM PDT by Khepera (Do not remove by penalty of law!)
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To: Khepera
Truth hurts don't it?

Does it?

34 posted on 04/28/2003 4:43:42 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: My2Cents
The movie, which depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus, features actors speaking only in Latin and Aramaic.



I take this to mean the movie features actors speaking only in Latin and Aramaic, but also there will be English speaking actors and actresses as well.
35 posted on 04/28/2003 4:45:41 PM PDT by travelnurse
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To: floridarocks
Mel and his father know a whole lot more of what is going on in the world than most people realize.

Really? You think the planes were flown into the WTC by remote control?

You sound like those idiot blacks who call into C-SPAN every day.

Gibson's OK, but his father is a nut.

36 posted on 04/28/2003 4:47:47 PM PDT by sinkspur
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Comment #37 Removed by Moderator

To: Jacob Kell
says Sister Mary Boys, professor of practical theology at Union Theological Seminary in New York

To...many..jokes...must..control...sense..of...humour

38 posted on 04/28/2003 5:03:34 PM PDT by freepatriot32 (It really upsets Big Brother when you won't graze in the same pasture as the other sheep)
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To: travelnurse
I take this to mean the movie features actors speaking only in Latin and Aramaic, but also there will be English speaking actors and actresses as well.

No really ALL of the dialogue is in latin and aramaic. That's another point of controversy. How will such a film do?

39 posted on 04/28/2003 5:04:35 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: Grammy
""The movie, which depicts the last 12 hours in the life of Jesus..."

Had me confused too. Was wondering if that's the last 12 hours since the ressurrection or the the last 12 hours beginning at 7 this morning!!

40 posted on 04/28/2003 5:04:45 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: John Beresford Tipton
How dare you insult the Greenlanders!

It was the Dutch!
41 posted on 04/28/2003 5:06:44 PM PDT by lavrenti
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Whyy latin, rather than Greek? The soldiers of the Roman army serving in the east were Greek-speaking, NOT Latin speaking.
42 posted on 04/28/2003 5:07:09 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: Jacob Kell
" The article quotes his father, who claims that the Holocaust never happened and that the World Trade Center was destroyed by remote control.

Mainstream Palestinian opinion. Is his father Abu Mel?

43 posted on 04/28/2003 5:10:29 PM PDT by cookcounty
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To: lavrenti
"It was the Dutch!"

Then I throw my shoes* at them!

*Wooden shoes of course.
44 posted on 04/28/2003 5:11:18 PM PDT by John Beresford Tipton
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To: My2Cents
Uhm, I suppose it was little green men from Mars instead?
45 posted on 04/28/2003 5:27:09 PM PDT by webstersII
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To: dighton
"Mel Gibson's father may be a crank and anti-semite."

Do you say that simply because he believes that the Jews killed Jesus? I thought that was one item of historical fact that scholars did not argue over.
46 posted on 04/28/2003 5:28:54 PM PDT by webstersII
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To: My2Cents
This is from the article:
"Rabbi Eugene Korn, director of Interfaith Affairs at the Anti-Defamation League in New York, says, "Historically, Passion plays have been very dangerous productions in terms of Christian attitudes toward Jews. Many dramatic presentations of the Passion contained anti-Semitic elements ... that led to the charge of deicide and responsibility of Jews for the crucifixion. Not only Jews who lived then, but Jews for all time."

Who could blame the Jews who are living now? That is ridiculous.
47 posted on 04/28/2003 5:32:17 PM PDT by webstersII
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To: Jacob Kell

Rabid Semitism..

The Jews persecuted Jesus (who was himself a Jew) everyone knows it and there's no reason to cover it up. If they are ashamed of it, then that's just too bad. I see no need to re-write history to please a bunch of nit-picky semites.

If you don't like it or Gibsons "ultra-conservative" Catholic faith (which is also constantly under attack) then I would advise you to just not watch it.

48 posted on 04/28/2003 5:32:30 PM PDT by Jhoffa_ (Sammy to Frodo: "Get out. Go sleep with one of your whores!")
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To: Rodney King
You are saying that because Mel's dad is wakcy, that therefore Mel is wacky,

No, I'm saying that because Mel's dad is wacky, and cites his bizarre religious beliefs to support his wackiness, AND Mel responds to his dad's religiously-based wackiness by paying to build a "not open to the public" church for the group that dad is wacky about, that therefore Mel is wacky.

If your dad belongs to Matt Hale's World Church of the Creator, that doesn't make YOU wacky. But if you proceed to finance the building of a church or compound or whatever for the World Church of the Creator, then I have no problem writing you off as wacky too.

49 posted on 04/28/2003 5:33:59 PM PDT by GovernmentShrinker
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To: Jacob Kell
>> "What we have here is a rich filmmaker whose beliefs may counter what the teaching of the church has been for the last 50 years," says Sister Mary Boys

The good sister says more than she intended. The Church has only one doctrine, one Truth -- and what it has been "teaching" for the last 50 years is most certainly NOT in accord with centuries of Catholic teaching, revelation, and doctrine. Many Catholics of conscience are finally starting to wake up to the modern heresy, following as it does the pattern of Arianism, Manichaenism, Albigensianism, etc.

"Wrong is wrong even if everyone is doing it; right is right even if no one is doing it." -- St. Augustine

50 posted on 04/28/2003 5:34:12 PM PDT by NewJerseyJoe
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