Dinner Prayers at VMI Ruled Unconstitutional

Fox News ^ | April 28, 2003 | Associated Press

[First Amendment]

RICHMOND, Va.

[WOSG]

The point is that secularizing society requires taking religion out of the public square. do that, and many children are raised with no exposure to Him at all.

That is all the secularists need. They dont need the exceptional few, they need the unexceptional many, who will keep voting/working to further secularize because they dont understand what they are doing.

[dandelion]

So, shall they cart the cadets off to jail for praying in the lunchroom? What would happen if they were to all pray? Who would be the one to arrest them?

What would happen if all those who were told NOT to pray got up and prayed anyway? Do any of us dare to find out?

[montag813]

First Amendment groups hailed the ruling. "This is extraordinarily important," said Barry Lynn, a lawyer with Americans United for the Separation of Church and State

WHAT? So groups trying to turn Freedom of Religion to Freedom FROM Religion and the abolishment thereof, are now called "First Amendment Groups" by no less a source than FoxNews??? This is truly disheartening.

[BenR2]

We must have some pretty biased -- or damned ignorant -- judges.

Where in the First Amendment does it "forbid" dinner prayers at a military college (even if the military college receives state/federal funds)?

As I read the Amendment, the entity restricted is CONGRESS -- and the thing it is restricted from is making certain laws.

Ridiculous.

[Unleashed]

How can this be "unconstitutional"? That is a complete non-sequitor, to deny free speech while claiming that you uphold it.

This lawsuit was brought by a vast minority of students, people who probably aren't going to be swayed by any references to God no matter where they occur.

What kind of logic is this? The wishes (not needs) of a very few are placed higher in importance than the needs (and wishes) of the greater majority. That is simply incredible. From a logical, moral, spiritual, common sensical standpoint, this ruling makes no sense.

Our country is rapidly becoming a travisty, and stories like this prove more and more how liberals are making a mockery of the Constitution they claim to hold so dear.

[Arkinsaw]

VMI had their chance. They could have gone private when the war commenced. But the government teat was too sweet and they could not bite the bullet and give up the cash. Now they get what they paid for.

VMI has not been VMI since the Board of Visitors surrendered several years ago. They voted to become just a normal State College and now they are being forced to be one.

[HairOfTheDog]

Scratching your head too?

Saying that Freedom of Speech means "No one may speak if I may not like it" is equivalent to what?

Freedom of the press meaning I shouldn't have to see newspapers in the store with upsetting headlines?

[HairOfTheDog]

No, that analogy doesn't work.....

Hummmmm. Going to bed. Still scratching my head.

[First Amendment]

Those at VMI who were not inclined to pray would not be praying anyway even if their heads were inclined (bowed). Those who are inclined to pray (in their hearts) will pray, no matter the ruling.

I understand your point - that prayer (IOW a relationship with God) is a private, individual relationship, but a public prayer is an opportunity for those who might not otherwise pray to at least hear the words and maybe at some point consider the import. To relegate God to the closet is harmful for all of us.

If things keep heading downward (note the Supreme Court decision banning the 10 Commandments) this country is getting closer to the edge of the abyss. I think civil disobedience might be in order. I remember reading about the Boston Tea Party when I was a kid (anyone read "Johnny Tremain"?) and was inpired. I think we should consider this.

[goldstategop]

Following this wonderful logic, let's ban military chaplains. After all the office amounts to an unconstutional establishment of religion. <sarcasm

[kritikos]

I well understand your point, believe me. I have been viscerally and verbally wrestling with these issues for the past 20 years of my 30+ years as a Christian.

Nonetheless, the era of "comfortable Christianity" appears to be over. Christianity's part in America's 227 (official) years of existence are but a small part (11+%) of Christianity's part in world history. God brought His church through the dark ages and crusades and world wars to bloom in recent generations. The church will survive as God has appointed. Yet I am not so certain about America.

From the perspective of one who has been on both sides of the pulpit I believe the church in America has done a credible job in evangelizing much of the world, yet has failed to produce significant maturity in Christians here at home. Especially in the face of the growth of secularization; which, though its impact is most obvious in our age, has been around for a long time (theological "modernism" began well over a hundred years ago).

Though what I am about to say is not much more than speculation (since I am not a prophet) I cannot help but believe that God is slowly removing His Holy Spirit from our midst as a nation. As the Restrainer is removed the unhindered effect of human sin will become more evident.

The issues of prayer in public schools are but symptoms of the greater problem that is being ignored by most Americans (even in many churches). That is...personal, individual sin and separation from God...and God's only solution to that problem: Jesus Christ.

[kritikos]

To relegate God to the closet is harmful for all of us.

I too would much rather have a praying nation than otherwise. Yet nothing grieves me more than a half-hearted lukewarm public prayer by one who is taking their "turn" to pray...which is what usually happens when prayers are "daily routine."

As I have said elsewhere: Rote passion is paper thin. It is devoured by the first flames of confrontation.

[Mo1]

In an important victory for First Amendment groups, a federal appeals court ruled Monday that the traditional prayers said before evening meals at the Virginia Military Institute (search) are unconstitutional.

OK .. how is being forced not to speek a victory for the 1st amendment?

[goldstategop]

I confess I don't quite get it either. Why is religious speech in a public setting deemed to be unconstitutional whereas on the other hand in the same public setting there are no problems with say, looking at Playboy centerfolds just before dinner? Color me confused.

[Mo1]

I confess I don't quite get it either. Why is religious speech in a public setting deemed to be unconstitutional

Here is a question .. what words did they use?

For example, many prayers I have said were in the lines of being thankfully for the meal

Are we not allowed to be thankful? .. are those words unconsitutional?

Do the Courts have a list of words that we are allowed to say and a list of words we can't say?

And if they have a list .. isn't that against what the First Amedment is all about?

[Mo1]

unconsitutional = unconstitutional