Posted on 05/08/2003 8:28:40 AM PDT by madfly
Republican members of Arizona's congressional delegation have put their letter-writing hats on the past few days.U.S. Sen. John McCain and U.S. Reps. Jim Kolbe, John Shadegg, Jeff Flake, J.D. Hayworth, Rick Renzi and Trent Franks penned a letter to Homeland Security Secretary Tom Ridge asking for unmanned aerial vehicles to be used to help patrol the Mexican border.
The May 7 letter asks Ridge to develop a UAV patrol program in southern Arizona. The congressional members endorse Fort Huachuca as a good location for unmanned drone operations, training and research.
"Southern Arizona provides an excellent location for researching aerial threats, examining the use of technologies and addressing potential safety and privacy concerns," the Republican members said in the correspondence.
Several members of the state delegation have been pushing hard for more federal resources along the border. U.S. Sen. Jon Kyl recently met with Attorney General John Ashcroft regarding border matters. Kyl, McCain, Shadegg and others would also like to see more technology used to help stem the tide of illegal border crossings.
On Tuesday, Franks wrote his own letter touting Luke Air Force Base as the training home for the new Joint Strike Fighter. Franks is urging House Armed Services chairman Duncan Hunter, R-Calif. to get on the Luke bandwagon.
The $200 billion JSF is the next generation jet fighter and Franks believes Luke and the Goldwater Range are well suited for training operations.
Franks' House district includes Luke. The Lockheed Martin-made JSF will be deployed in 2008.
The Pentagon embarks on another round of base closings in 2005. Attracting UAV or Joint Strike Fighter operations would help Arizona facilities stay off the closure lists.
Agreed.
Negative.
The Tucson Sector is the heaviest crossing area on the Southwest Border.
Correct. See my post above.
Tethered Aerostat Radar System
More pictures here.
We already have one of these flying over the mountains south of Sierra Vista and Fort Huachuca day and night. It has been rumored that the radar on this is so sensitive that they CAN see foot traffic on the border. However, for whatever reasons, they aren't looking at it but only for airplanes. The addition of an optical system and night vision equipment onto this platform would make it even more useful for monitoring border intrusions.
Unless, of course, there's a thunderstorm. Or something's broken. Or there just isn't enough money to operate the damn thing.
I've made frequent visits to friends in Sierra Vista since 1997, and I've seen the thing operational TWICE. Hell, it's grounded in one of the pictures you posted.
It has been rumored that the radar on this is so sensitive that they CAN see foot traffic on the border.
Great. You propose making border policy based on vague rumors that are complete BS.
However, for whatever reasons, they aren't looking at it but only for airplanes.
Because that's what the radar is optimized to detect, unless you pass a law requiring all illegal aliens to wear radar corner reflectors on their person.
The addition of an optical system and night vision equipment onto this platform would make it even more useful for monitoring border intrusions.
Let me know when they develop an x-ray vision capability that lets them see objects not in line of sight.
Of course, we could just pass a law that requires the illegals to remain within LOS of the aerostat...maybe that can be the second clause of the corner-reflector law.
Like I said, force multipliers work--to a point. If your goal is to kill large numbers of illegal aliens, they'd work really well. And when John Q. Public, while eating his morning breakfast, sees a steady parade of men, women, and children who got partially shredded by DPICM, the program will get terminated.
If you wish to apprehend, detain, and deport...you're still going to need bodies. Lots of bodies. Force multipliers will be some help, but you're still going to need people to apprehend the illegals.
Once the decision is made to cross the border illegally, we're playing catch-up.
Translation: there aren't any.
and sheer ignorance because I can sum it up by simply stating that you're full of crap and nothing you said in that post bears any validity.
Wow, what a tantrum. Parents, spank your kids when they act up, or they'll grow up to be just like Spiff...
You, however, are an armchair quarterback with very limited knowledge on this issue spouting off like you know something - which you clearly don't and which has been demonstrated in this very thread with your idiotic assertion that Texas crossings are worse than those in Arizona, etc.
And your grand scheme here is to pretend that the only solution to the border problem is to put massive amounts of troops on the border and that massive amounts of troops is too expensive and too impractical and therefore the border should just be left alone.
Why don't you shut up while you're ahead. There's a few of us here who actually know more about this than you. Accept that and stop making an ass of yourself.
I've seen it every time I've been in Sierra Vista--on the ground. Some of those times, there were serious thunderstorms in the area--it's generally not a good idea to operate an aerostat under those conditions.
Maybe I just got unlucky--but you can safely assume that the smugglers would pay attention to the aerostat status in considering their
I've talked to some of the people in the article quoted and with the people in the local border groups. I know these people. I know the retired military that I trust a whole lot more than I trust you. I'm on the ground right here on the border in the thick of this.
That's nice. I know more about how radar actually works than you do.
And your grand scheme here is to pretend that the only solution to the border problem is to put massive amounts of troops on the border and that massive amounts of troops is too expensive and too impractical and therefore the border should just be left alone.
No, I'm saying that if it's as important as you say, then you'd better be ready to argue for a real effort and not a half-a$$ed non-solution.
What happens when your "let's-do-this-on-the-cheap" effort doesn't work as advertised? What happens when the illegals and their smugglers adapt their tactics to defeat your thin screen?
I'll tell you what happens: you go running back to Congress, demanding more money for a problem that you SWORE would be solved on the cheap, and pretty soon Congress will ask "so when does the illegal immigation actually stop?"
And they'll close down your "wasteful" program, and the problem is back--and even more unstoppable, because you've expended political capital on something that didn't go the distance.
Hey, MI, I agree with you. The idea is to use the force multipliers, intelligence gathering, and high tech sensing provided by the military to augment the Border Patrol. Sure, we need more Border Patrol to do the actual apprehension of the intruders - I never said we didn't. However, I disagree with poohbah when he claims we need thousands of soldiers trampling through the desert to hold the line.
We'll you won't change her mind, so don't try.
I don't think we'll need as many agents as Poohbah thinks either, but their are much better ways to fix the problem then throwing money and manpower at the border, and I think Poohbah knows what I'm talking about and would agree.
Absent very strict enforcement of laws against hiring illegal aliens--and we BOTH know that many people who are allegedly anti-immigrant cheerfully hire day labor to work for them--we're going to need lots of bodies on the border. The problem, again, is that by the time the illegal is across the border, he's halfway to winning. Best bet: deter him from crossing.
Basic suggested concepts include, but are not limited to -
The security of the U.S. border should be accomplished with a combination of Border Patrol, selected regular Military, National Guard & Reserve and a little innovation.
The Border Patrol should apprehend, process and repatriate illegal aliens in accordance with their mission.
The National Guard & Reserves assume those logistic and maintenance functions (transportation – truck and bus driving, vehicle maintenance, communications and administrative tasks, house keeping tasks, etc.) to free up Border Patrol personnel to concentrate on their basic mission.
The regular military provides high tech reconnaissance, surveillance & scouting with manned aircraft and UAVs, monitoring of remote areas, air-lift, and selected units to secure remote areas of the border. The border mission will provide an excellent training opportunity. Most importantly, the border mission is a national security mission.
Some more innovative concepts include -1. Ultra-light aircraft. Ultra-light aircraft would be appropriate for daytime missions. Ultra-lights are inexpensive (cost less than current Border Patrol SUVs), low maintenance, require only limited training (do not require an FAA pilots license), and fly low & slow allowing for excellent tracking of illegal activity. They can be either single or double occupant and would allow for a dedicated pilot and tracker. They are available for purchase in Arizona.2. Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs). UAVs that are in the current inventory provide the nighttime continuation of the daytime mission, yet with advanced high-tech all-weather and limited visibility sensors to acquire and track infiltrating illegal movement.Both ultra-lights and UAVs can complement each other with reverse cycle maintenance: Ultra-light maintenance at night and UAV maintenance during the day. All UAVs would be stationed and operate from Ft. Huachuca. Ultra-lights would be ground transported to the area of use. State of the art light-weight high-tech communications and position locating systems can be easily installed in proposed ultra-light.
3. Native American Border Patrol Augmentation. A dedicated Native American Border Patrol augmentation would be an excellent way of capitalizing the unique and honored traditional skills of our Native American citizens. Their time honored skills at tracking and outdoor skills can be tapped to the nation’s advantage. They should be employed as trackers working in conjunction with US military, Border Patrol, ultra-lights and UAVs.A military occupation specialty (MOS) type training program could provide structure to the concept. Entrusting them with our national borders would be a compliment to their heritage along the line of the “Code Talkers” of WW II. A name for consideration would be “Border Stalkers”. It might be that this new opportunity would provide a needed and well-deserved niche for the Native American community beyond what is currently available. Currently such a concept is in place with the “Shadow Wolves” of the U.S. Customs Service on the Tohono O'Odham Reservation in southern Arizona.
The Shadow Wolves unit is composed solely of Native Americans of Blackfoot, Cheyenne and Pima tribes who are known for their uncanny ability to track aliens and the drugs they may carry.
See: http://www.tucsonweekly.com/tw/2001-09-27/feat.html and http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,70147,00.html
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