Posted on 05/08/2003 8:31:16 PM PDT by JackelopeBreeder
What I see is some Senators scrambling for pork for their state, beyond that everything I've seen is a dog and pony show, designed to make us believe they are doing something to fix the problem.
Were < sic> in the desert will you house the millions of detained illegal aliens? We have lots of land. The Federal government took over millions of acres in the 90's with the great Western land grab (i.e. when they outlawed public use of most of the BLM land for things like OHV use and mining.)
How will you collect the fines?
Use the IRS. They seem to find me every year. The Federal Government has lots of experience tracking down assets and confiscating them from it's citizens. Why should it be any more difficult for foreign nationals? They have checking accounts. Their kids go to our public schools. They use our public services. They own houses, cars, and property, and used all of the above.
How much taxpayer money will be sunk into this pit? It is not cheap to feed several million people 3 meals a day.
That statement is made with a false vis-a-vis premise, presupposing the status quo is cost-free. I'll be the last one to claim that illegal immigrants make no contribution to our economy. Some pay taxes (e.g. unavoidable taxes such as sales tax, gas tax, etc.). Since much of their activity is of necessity, invisable to our government, and secondly, because most are in the lower income levels, illegal foreign nationals pay much less in tax revenue than they consume as a group in services. Of course, this differs by nationality, culture, the U.S. region they are located in, etc.. But there is DEFINITELY a high cost being paid, especially by border states such as Texas and California.
Second, security is not cheap. Ask my buddies in Iraq. This is a national security issue.
Third, your argument (regardless of your political orientation) is the claim liberal clap-trap that leftist pols have been feeding us for years regarding crime and punishment in general. First, make the prisons so ungodly inefficient that it costs $100K per year to house an inmate. Then claim the cost is not worth the benefit to society. Guess what, when they actually DO lock 'em up, as they did in the 1990's, we found out that it actually DOES pay to stop crime by locking up criminals. Recidivism dropped like a stone, because the guys stopped going through the turnstyles.
Fourth, we are feeding millions around the world already. What's your problem with SECURING THE BOARDERS? The "meals for millions" argument is a "red herring". What's your agenda?
No he won’t. He’ll just keep trying until he gets through. You have not taken away what he is trying to obtain. It’s been proven time and time again.
That sounds like an argument that one of my college professors once said, ".. if they use the word 'obviously', you know it's definitely no such thing". Proven??! Where and how? Definitely, illegal immigrants come to the USA for more than economic opportunity, e.g. political freedom. But this is arguably NOT the case with many Latin Americans coming across our Southern border. "Mom and the kids" stay behind in the village, and for many of these folks, coming home on holidays and off-work periods is a lifetime routine.
When the cost of illegal immigration exceeds the perceived benefit, illegal immigration will drop like a stone. The USA is serving as a political "pressure relief valve" for both Mexican and our socialist friends in Canada. If our borders weren't so porous, many of these folks would be running a (political) revolution at home.
However, America's a cheap dumping ground for the worlds "best and brightest" (and those most aggressive at seeking either opportunity or a free ride; we get both kinds). As long as this country exists for the world's oppressed, the worlds oppressed will give the oppressors a "free ride", by taking the boat to the states.
We have one, but most US employers would rather save money by hiring illegal aliens.
Um..geez, there are several things one could say here. First, if the illegal aliens are either at home or in a tent prison city, there will be fewer to hire. Second, there is a good case to be made that the supply of LEGAL immigrants (e.g. H1B High Tech workers) have long since outstripped the domestic demand, such that we're now killing off an entire American workforce segment. No, we don't have an effective immigration system. It's arbitrary, biased, tilted towards certain industries (benefiting both Democrat and GOP politian-whor*s alike), and serve both deserving foreign nationals, and American citizens poorly.
FReegards, SFS
Uh... I don't think that Americans living on the border are too concerned about that, they're too busy protecting their property and their livestock from the hordes of ILLEGAL ALIENS who need to have their butts kicked back home.
Interesting how you never see these same Hispanic groups complain about the Mexican government in any way ----and obviously that's where the abuse of these people originates, the reason they're coming here in the first place, dying to get out of their own country. Why won't they complain about things in Mexico? I have a feeling they're on the payroll of that government. Foreign agents of a foreign government.
Job 39:26
"Does the hawk fly by your wisdom, And spread its wings toward the south?"
I sure hope so.
I'd rather keep the land for some other use then to turn it into an ever-growing prison, that will cost millions and then billions of taxpayer money.
Use the IRS. They seem to find me every year. The Federal Government has lots of experience tracking down assets and confiscating them from it's citizens. Why should it be any more difficult for foreign nationals? They have checking accounts. Their kids go to our public schools. They use our public services. They own houses, cars, and property, and used all of the above.
The vast majority (80% +) of illegal border crossers do not have bank accounts or pay any taxes. The current law is that the IRS will not share its information with immigration authorities. It will take an act of Congress to do that, and that won't happen because Congress knows that the illegal alien population is helping to support the defunct and outdated Social Security system.
There is no interior immigration enforcement in the United States, so your program would have very little revenue from the apprehended illegal aliens crossing the border.
Add the fact that immigration authorities only apprehend 1/3 of the illegal border crossers; the illegal alien population inside the US would continue to grow unabated.
Second, security is not cheap. Ask my buddies in Iraq. This is a national security issue.
Correct, security is not cheap, but catching 1/3 of the criminals does not stop crime, it only slows it down.
Third, your argument (regardless of your political orientation) is the claim liberal clap-trap that leftist pols have been feeding us for years regarding crime and punishment in general. First, make the prisons so ungodly inefficient that it costs $100K per year to house an inmate. Then claim the cost is not worth the benefit to society. Guess what, when they actually DO lock 'em up, as they did in the 1990's, we found out that it actually DOES pay to stop crime by locking up criminals. Recidivism dropped like a stone, because the guys stopped going through the turnstyles.
Yes, locking up criminals does cut back on crime and recidivism drops. What you fail to understand it that your average border crosser does not consider this a crime or himself a criminal and he will continue to come and look for work, not matter how many times you lock him up. Because he knows, that once he gets through, no one will look for him.
Fourth, we are feeding millions around the world already.
Yes, and we will continue to. Congress will not stop feeding the masses of the world to feed your growing illegal alien population.
What's your problem with SECURING THE BOARDERS? I don't have a problem with securing the borders; in fact I work at it everyday, and not by typing on an Internet forum.
What's your agenda?
My agenda would be to solve the problem of illegal immigration; and locking them all up, will not solve the problem. It has not worked for the drug problem and it won't work for this problem.
That sounds like an argument that one of my college professors once said, ".. if they use the word 'obviously', you know it's definitely no such thing". Proven??! Where and how? Definitely, illegal immigrants come to the USA for more than economic opportunity, e.g. political freedom. But this is arguably NOT the case with many Latin Americans coming across our Southern border. "Mom and the kids" stay behind in the village, and for many of these folks, coming home on holidays and off-work periods is a lifetime routine.
Our country locks up and detains hundreds of thousands of illegal aliens yearly and once returned and released to their home country, they immediately return. There is nothing in their home countries for them to do. No jobs, no survival. So, they head back. If they get arrested again, at least they get three squares a day until they get released and then they can try again. Yes, they have families in their home countries, and that is another reason that continually drives them north.
As long as their countries suck and ours provides the money, they will come.
When the cost of illegal immigration exceeds the perceived benefit, illegal immigration will drop like a stone.
The cost exceeded the benefit long ago. Congress does not care. They will just throw more tax dollars at it to pay for the cheap labor. Look at them now. Hospitals in the South West States are going broke because of the illegal alien problem. What's Congresses fix, throw money at it. Will they stop the illegals from using our health care? NO. They'll just throw our tax money at it and hope someone else will deal with it at a later time.
The USA is serving as a political "pressure relief valve" for both Mexican and our socialist friends in Canada. If our borders weren't so porous, many of these folks would be running a (political) revolution at home.
In the grand scheme of things, Canada and their few thousand illegals are not even a drop in the bucket. Mexico is 97% of the problem.
Now, do we punish the Mexican people for the actions of their government of do we go after the root of the problem, the Mexican Government?
It would be far less costly to force a "regime change" in Mexico City then to house and feed millions of illegal aliens that would have no effect on the problem.
However, America's a cheap dumping ground for the worlds "best and brightest" (and those most aggressive at seeking either opportunity or a free ride; we get both kinds). As long as this country exists for the world's oppressed, the worlds oppressed will give the oppressors a "free ride", by taking the boat to the states.
You're getting closer to the problem. As long as we are a welfare state to the world masses, they will come, no matter how many you lock up. In a lot of case, a prison here is better then conditions were they came from.
Um..geez, there are several things one could say here. First, if the illegal aliens are either at home or in a tent prison city, there will be fewer to hire. Second, there is a good case to be made that the supply of LEGAL immigrants (e.g. H1B High Tech workers) have long since outstripped the domestic demand, such that we're now killing off an entire American workforce segment. No, we don't have an effective immigration system. It's arbitrary, biased, tilted towards certain industries (benefiting both Democrat and GOP politian-whor*s alike), and serve both deserving foreign nationals, and American citizens poorly.
I'm not talking about high tech jobs. We have visa's programs for service jobs and agriculture, but employers prefer to hire illegals. It cuts their bottom line and increases their profits.
FReegards.. SFS
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