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Three engines are better than two (National Post vs Canadian's hovering dinosaurs)
National Post ^ | May 12 2003

Posted on 05/12/2003 9:48:39 AM PDT by knighthawk

Canada's Sea King helicopters are hovering dinosaurs. Actually, they do not hover much: The 1950s-era aircraft require 30 hours of maintenance for every one hour of flight. Earlier this year, a Sea King crashed on the deck of a Canadian warship, the latest in a long series of snafus. Last week, Canada's maritime helicopter program was again at the centre of a government controversy. According to documents revealed last week by the National Post, the tendering process for the $2.5-billion purchase of 28 new helicopters seems to have been manipulated to favour a French manufacturer.

The original technical specifications for the Sea King's replacements were drafted by the military officials whose pilots will fly them in combat and on coastal rescue missions. Because the Sea King's replacements must be able to function safely far out at sea, military officials say Canada needs a helicopter that can maintain altitude even without full engine power -- so our choppers can return safely to shore in the event an engine fails. In addition, it should be capable of carrying all the equipment it needs for different missions. When disaster strikes, minutes count; and our helicopters should be able to respond to an emergency immediately without a delay for reconfiguration.

A French company, Eurocopter Canada Ltd., hopes its model will be selected by Ottawa. But that helicopter has only two engines, and so would likely not be able to maintain altitude if an engine conks out. It also has less capacity to carry rescue and military equipment than the more robust three-engine model offered by its Anglo-Italian competitor, Cormorant.

But what the French model gives up in the air it apparently makes up in smoke-filled rooms. As the Post's Andrew McIntosh has disclosed, officials from Eurocopter and the French government met Raymond Chrétien, Canada's ambassador to France, in 2001 to lobby for changes to the stated operation requirements of Canada's new helicopters. In a development we find disturbing, Canada's ambassador subsequently sent off a diplomatic note, labelled "SECRET," to his uncle, Prime Minister Jean Chrétien, emphasizing the allegedly high political and commercial importance attached to Eurocopter's concerns. Within weeks of the meeting, Canadian defence officials changed the technical specifications for the replacement helicopters and a Eurocopter representative was, documents confirm, "provided the opportunity to review the revised wording" of the specifications. As a former Sea King fleet commander recently wrote, the process to replace the Sea Kings has been so infected by politics that it now ranks as an "abject failure."

Clearly it is wrong -- as a matter of both business and politics -- to allow a company bidding on a contract to participate in formulating the product requirements embedded in that contract. But there is something far more important at stake: the lives that depend on Canada's ability to participate in military operations and perform search and rescue operations at sea. It would be a disgrace if Canadian soldiers and maritime travellers were put at risk because a smooth-talking group of corporate lobbyists from France convinced our government to dumb down its requirements for a vital piece of hardware.


TOPICS: Canada; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: canada; seaking

1 posted on 05/12/2003 9:48:39 AM PDT by knighthawk
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To: MizSterious; rebdov; Nix 2; green lantern; BeOSUser; Brad's Gramma; dreadme; Turk2; Squantos; ...
Ping
2 posted on 05/12/2003 9:49:43 AM PDT by knighthawk (Full of power I'm spreading my wings, facing the storm that is gathering near)
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To: knighthawk
Clearly it is wrong -- as a matter of both business and politics -- to allow a company bidding on a contract to participate in formulating the product requirements embedded in that contract.

This is a common practice. Not necessarily bad, you have to have some strong managers running the process. That said, this is the type of thing that IBM got sued for over government computing contracts in the late 60's.

3 posted on 05/12/2003 9:56:17 AM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: knighthawk
...Raymond Chrétien, Canada's ambassador to France...

Who just happens to be Jean's nephew...

4 posted on 05/12/2003 10:08:31 AM PDT by facedown (Armed in the Heartland)
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To: Incorrigible
It actually can work very well. The trick is to do it through public written comments (with flex in the contract specs). Often a minor change in specs can result in big dollar savings, e.g. the ability to use off the shelf rather than custom.

But this one sounds like rank politics....
5 posted on 05/12/2003 10:11:16 AM PDT by Wisconsin
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To: Incorrigible
This is a common practice.

Yup. And everytime I was involved in specing out the contract for the prospective customer, we got the contract - but those were with private companies, not government customers. A government procurement process should not operate this way.

6 posted on 05/12/2003 10:12:57 AM PDT by LouD
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To: Incorrigible
a company bidding on a contract to participate in formulating the product requirements embedded in that contract.
Keeping company representatives completely out of that loop logically leads to the case where the specs can't be met by anyone, or can be met by an inferior product which can win the bid on first cost alone, leaving the buyer with high operating costs and/or far less than the most effective capability available.

7 posted on 05/12/2003 10:13:12 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: knighthawk
For a big ol' fatty, the Sea King is a sharp looking aircraft.
8 posted on 05/12/2003 10:14:42 AM PDT by Psycho_Bunny
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To: knighthawk
It gets even more maddening when you realize that we already have about a dozen of the Cormorants that the Coast Gyard uses for search and rescue. That's right, the same "Cadillac" helicopters that King Jean insists are too elaborate for the military per his original campaign pledge and susequent cancellation. So, what's necessary for the CG is not necessary for the military, and Canada blew $500 million to cancel the military contract. If we go with the substandard French choppers, not only will we have a second rate military chopper but we'll lose the economies of scale inherent in maintaining a single model for both fleets. Just so Chretien can avoid looking like he's flip flopping.

It will take us years if not decades to undo the damage this Liberal idiot has inflicted on this country, if ever. Stupid b*stard Chretien. I hate him.

9 posted on 05/12/2003 10:17:39 AM PDT by mitchbert (Facts are Stubborn Things)
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To: Incorrigible
The key point is that the Canadians had no thought of paying for the development of a new-design helicopter to meet its needs. That puts them in the position of offering money for whatever is on the shelf, plus or minus limited modifications.

In such case blue-sky specs make no sense at all. You just have to put a dollar amount on whatever you think each capability on offer is worth--and make an eyes-open case that one vendor or the other should be given the contract. And take the political heat for whatever political motives may consequently be imputed to you.

"Perfect" acquisition is illusory; you can easily pay more in the cost of evaluating proposals than the contract is worth in total. I think of the occasion when an engineer needed, for government project, a model of a particular airplane. His choices were to pay for the model out of his own pocket or to wait a few months for the procurement process to get the "low bid." Even though an hour of the engineer's time was worth more than the model . . .

10 posted on 05/12/2003 10:36:54 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion
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To: conservatism_IS_compassion
I agree with you. Air-sea rescue helicopters are in use all around the world. They should look at what is available, consult with their military procurement experts, and decide what modifications, if any, are needed to existing helicopters.

Some degree of corruption is almost inevitable in military contracting, but there should at least be a mechanism to ensure that the products will do the job and not bankrupt the government. In other words, if somebody want a moderate rakeoff, fine, but don't compromise safety and lives.
11 posted on 05/12/2003 10:50:06 AM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: knighthawk
You'd think after Pratt Canada just got SCREWED on the $4 Billion (A couple trillion Can dollars) A400M contract by the French, they'd tell the surrender monkeys to pound sand.

WAKE UP CANADIANS,EH!
12 posted on 05/12/2003 11:01:33 AM PDT by UNGN (I've been here since '98 but had nothing to say until now)
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To: mitchbert
Well, it would be embarassing for those idiots in Ottawa to end up buying the same helicopter that we blew nearly a billion NOT buying in the frist place, when we desparately needed them. Having said that, the original requirement for a 3-engine aircraft the size of the Cormorant was a comittee decision that may not have reflected the true needs of the Navy. Also you may recall that they were too big to fit in the hangar on the newly (at that time) commissioned frigates, which would require modifications to be able to house these aircraft.

Back in '95 when I was working at HT406 at CFB Shearwater, which is the training squadron for Canadian naval helicopter pilots, the consensus amongst people I talked to there was that the EuroCopter design was probably more than adequate for the job, better capable of staying upright in a forced water landing, and a good replacement for the ancient SeaKings. Of course, those guys would have been more than happy to have either rather than the 30+ year old antiques they were flying. I can't count how many times I'd see one of the training choppers towed out onto the apron for a flight, get started up, and then shut down and hauled back into the hangar for repairs. The training squadron got the oldest of the SeaKings, but even so it was not a confidence-inspiring thing to see, especially for the pilots and flight crew.
13 posted on 05/12/2003 11:11:48 AM PDT by -YYZ-
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To: -YYZ-
Interesting info. Thanks, eh!
14 posted on 05/12/2003 11:14:39 AM PDT by mitchbert (Facts are Stubborn Things)
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To: knighthawk
The VH-3s that serve as Marine One are Sea Kings.


15 posted on 05/12/2003 11:52:59 AM PDT by SMEDLEYBUTLER
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To: SMEDLEYBUTLER
Hey! Good 'ol 405. I think I've ridden in that particular helicopter :)
16 posted on 05/12/2003 12:31:53 PM PDT by -YYZ-
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