Bombardier (Canadian co.) lands major contract

Globe and Mail ^ | Monday, May. 12, 2003 | TERRY WEBER

[Space Wrangler]

Correct. Bombardier purchased LearJet over a decade ago. Incidentally, Bombardier also makes SeaDoo Personal watercraft and snowmobiles, and are currently trying to sell the recreational products division at this time to raise cash to build it's aerospace business. Bombardier also bought OMC (Outboard Marine Corporation) of Johnson and Evinrude fame in 2001. Offers are supposedly being considered by John Deere and Harley Davidson to buy the recreational products division (which includes SeaDoo, OMC, and Austrian engine maker Rotax) from Bombardier at this time. Bombardier is obviously staking it's future on it's core business of airplanes.

[AFreeBird]

Are you suggesting we let a corporation follow what's in its business self-interest, and not boycott those traitorous pseudo-allies to the north?

Well lets see. If the business requires certain types of equipment to operate, and if there are no domestic makers of said equipment, and if one of the best makers of said equipment is from a pseudo-ally, then yes.

Besides, I know the Canadian government was against us, but I know a lot of Canadians (quebec doesn't count as it is a frog province) were for us. Look we had our Piece-O-$#!t president, why can't other countries have one too? The exception of course being France which is just, well... French and no friend of anybody except themselves.

[Victor]

Bombardier also builds metro type railway systems (subways, etc.)

If I'm not mistaken, they built the monorail system in use at Newark airport.

Pretty diverse company with a lot of interesting products.

[Snowyman]

Better not tell ex-snook

OK, I'm not telling anyone, but it's on their web site.:) They employ 34,000 .

Bombardier Aerospace

The Corporation's aerospace activities are organized under Bombardier Aerospace, which is headquartered in Dorval, a suburb of Montréal. Bombardier Aerospace, the third largest civil airframe manufacturer in the world, is the leading business, regional and amphibious aircraft manufacturer. Its manufacturing facilities are located in Canada, the United States and the United Kingdom.

[eBelasco]

They make those Acela Amtrak trains that fell apart recently too.

[Victor]

Well, they didn't fall apart exactly. If I recall the strut/shock absorber system that keeps the train from leaning in a turn developed a crack in the supports.

These were all recalled and fixed.

[Provost-Marshal]

It's a foreign corporation, whose government (which betrayed us, by the way, but that's beside the point) subsidizes it, contrary to the tenets of free trade and free markets. Therefore, it is an illegal subsidy, which gives the company an unfair edge against our companies, which is why our companies don't make those types of jets. They can't compete with illegal subsidies.

[Space Wrangler]

Yes, they do build those systems, as well as locomotives I believe. So far, everyone interested in the recreational products division are American companies. Personally I'd like to see these companies become American flagged, and get the OMC line back into the US.

[eBelasco]

One inefficient government supported monstrosity selling to another. Who wound up paying for the repairs?

[Space Wrangler]

They make a downright horrible personal watercraft. The things get to about 20 hrs on the engine, and detonate. They look good, and run fast, but sadly, they spend at least as much time in the shop as they do on the water. That's why I own Yamaha's.

[eBelasco]

Well lets see. If the business requires certain types of equipment to operate, and if there are no domestic makers of said equipment, and if one of the best makers of said equipment is from a pseudo-ally, then yes.

When there is no competent domestic maker, and the foreign supplier is from an enemy state, then the federal government must interfere in the market and create conditions for a domestic supplier.

[Daus]

True. Are there any at all?

The closest domestic is the Boeing 717, which is still bigger than these RJ's. Though the RJ's are getting bigger and bigger every year.

Both Boeing and Airbus are missing the boat. RJ's is/will be the future of domestic air travel.

[chilepepper]

My motorcycle (a BMW F650) has a Rotax 650cc (made in Austria but Bombardier bought them out) - one hell of an engine, designed for motorcycles, ski-mobiles, water jets, and ultralight aircraft. rock solid engine.

[Poohbah]

Our companies aren't in the market because of US product liability laws.

Yes, only in the USA can you make a product, make a profit...

...and go bankrupt because some mouth-breathing Oprah-watching a$$hole with the IQ of a turnip violates every single boldfaced "DON'T DO THIS YOU DUMBF**K" in the manual, got injured, and got a jury of his peers (i.e., mouth-breathing Oprah-watchers with turnip-grade IQs) to award him lots of your money.

[AFreeBird]

When there is no competent domestic maker, and the foreign supplier is from an enemy state, then the federal government must interfere in the market and create conditions for a domestic supplier.

Well, the two logical contenders for such help (Beech and Cesna) were almost helped into the ground by the government, or at least government influencing trial-lawyers, as was mentioned in a post above.

Government getting the hell out of the way is the best recourse, of course we unfortunately have a government that can't stand to keep its hands and noses out of everyone's business and pockets.

Start there.

[eBelasco]

We can get the Brazilian and Canadian governments' interference in the market out of the way for a start. I'm not suggesting corporate welfare for Beech etc. Just a stop to Canadian and Brazilian corporate welfare to Bombardier and Embraer, which our gov't can facilitate quite easily.

[Squawk 8888]

Canadair (owned by Bombardier) invented the Regional Jet by stretching the Challenger executive jet. They sold nearly a hundred of them before they even had the first prototype built. Embraer of Brazil was the second manufacturer to get into the market.

The Fokker F-28 and F-100 from the 1970s never had the economics of the RJ because it was rather large (70 seats vs. 50 seats for the RJs). Fokker went out of business in the late 1990s after owner Daimler concluded that it was a money pit. The BAe 146 (renamed Avro RJ) from British Aerospace never fared well because it was large (70+ seats), slow (only 50mph faster than turboprops), low (ceiling 28,000 feet) and underpowered (used modified helicopter engines, is known as the only airliner with 5 APUs). The BAe product also fares poorly on short or slippery runways because it does not have thrust reversers; AirBC made the mistake of buying it and every winter a plane skids off the end of a runway at least once.

The closest the Americans have come to marketing a regional jet was a joint venture by Dornier and Fairchild, but I haven't heard anything on it for a couple of years so it may have been cancelled. Right now the smallest American-built airliner is the Boeing 717 at 90 to 100 seats. Bombardier's regional jets are made in versions with 44, 50 and 70 seats with a 90-seater under development.

Chin up, though, lots of American jobs will come of this deal. Bombardier is a truly global firm; major components are made in Canada, Ireland and the USA and many of the subsystems are American-made.

[ContentiousObjector]

The WTO has ruled that Ottawas hands are clean and it is the Brazilians who are making illegal subsides

But to their credit, they are atleast upfront about their subsides, they don't extract government money via fraud like Boeing does, (look into the 767 leasing deal)

If someone setup a deal like that in China, they would get the firing squad for corruption

[Squawk 8888]

You are correct. When Lear went bankrupt it was taken over by Bombardier; Lear jets are still built in Wichita using components made in Canada, Ireland and the USA.

[hchutch]

LOL!!

An EXCELLENT explanation of why we need f***ing tort reform so bad.