Police Storm Wrong Apartment, Resident Dies of Heart Attack

WABC News NYC ^ | May 16, 2003 | Art McFarland

[sargon]

No, laws against force and fraud SHOULD exist and be enforced.

That's not Anarchy, last time I checked.

Only a propagandist would assert that it is.

But arbitrarily authoritarian laws, which have nothing to do with Force or Fraud, but instead seek to imprison American citizens for some other reason, are Tyrannical.

God or nature made plants long before the all-powerful State decided it could ban them.

For instance, if the State can declare possession of a certain plant illegal (one which George Washington grew and parenthetically separated the sexes), then there is no limit to the arbitrary Law which it can impose.

And that is distinctly un-American.

These fascist drug laws were not brought about by the People. Check your history. They were essentially created by bureauratic fiat, against a background of heavy government-backed propaganda and lies.

That is the basis of the fascist Drug War which now imprisons hundred of thousands of Americans who have done nothing wrong, other than defy the edicts of a Tyrannical State.

Tyranny is tyranny. Learn to distinguish illegitimate authority from legitimate authority.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness is not about what other People believe it should be, it is about what the INDIVIDUAL defines it to be.

And as long as that individual commits no force or fraud against his brother, he or she should be left in peace.

A peacable individual being left alone by Government is an essential Liberty, one which many people have written off.

[MrLeRoy]

illegal drug use [...] is "forcing" normal people to deal and suffer with death,

No more than tobacco (which leads to early death) is "forcing" people to deal and suffer with death. Should tobacco be banned?

poverty, social costs

What forces people to deal with these is welfarist policies; let's fight those violations of rights, instead of using them as excuses for further violations of rights.

[sargon]

By the way, if you define Liberty is as "whatever the State and/or a majority decides", then it is YOUR definition of Liberty which is severely and artificially restricted.

You apparently believe in majority Tyranny and the infallibility of the almighty State.

I can support our President and the War on Terror, and oppose the utterly ineffective and Tyrannical War on Drugs, without adopting such a limited and historically incorrect definition of Freedom.

[MrLeRoy]

To just do anything you want is called True Anarchy, not True Liberty!

To do anything you want so long as it violates nobody's rights---THAT is True Liberty. To restrict liberty for any reason other than defense of individual rights is True Statism.

[MrLeRoy]

The dopers were the ones that caused the law officers to come calling

... to the wrong address with a no-knock raid. How did "dopers" cause that?

[Amelia]

As I said, if MOST of them were doing it, it wouldn't be NEWS when they catch one.

I never said NONE of them used drugs. I said I didn't think the majority did, and until you can prove that contention, please don't bother me again.

[justshe]

Reminds me of a little kid with his fingers stuck in his ears.....saying LA-LA-LA-LA-LA-LA .....so he doesn't have to hear what you are saying.

[tuna_battle_slight_return]

"The NYPD screwed up big time".

Detective Syphilis should have been on the case. He wouldn't have messed it up.

[Spottys Spurs]

Bio: DET. ANDY SIPOWICZ
Played by Dennis Franz: A hulking, mustachioed, walking contradiction, Sipowicz is a recovering alcoholic, a hot-tempered bully and a crude bigot. He's also a dedicated, brilliant cop, a fiercely loyal friend, and a sensitive soul who, in the last few years, has learned to ignore his prejudices, if not forget them. A Vietnam veteran who joined the police force after leaving the infantry, he spent the better part of his police career and his first marriage living inside a bottle, driving away wife Katie and son Andy Jr. After a near-fatal shooting by mobster Alfonse Giardella, he quit drinking and began the painful process of reassembling his life. Things were great for a while, as he reconciled with Andy Jr., courted and wed beautiful ADA Sylvia Costas, fathered a new son, Theo, and became good, good friends with new partner Bobby Simone. But then life on the job for Andy became the life of Job. Andy Jr. was killed trying to stop a robbery. Simone died of heart failure. Sylvia died in a courthouse shooting. Even Danny Sorenson, Simone's replacement and Andy's surrogate for Andy Jr., was murdered during an undercover investigation. Andy fell off the wagon a few times, almost drank a few other times, and briefly shut out the world. But he's slowly learned that you have to live your life and try to do some good with it and has reluctantly settled into the role of mentor to the younger detectives in the 15th squad.

A real role model, huh?

[Chances Are]

OK, here I am on message 162, and I simply can't take it anymore.

This crap about drug users being responsible for this woman's death because they're outside the law is just too much to take. For all the logic in that, you might as well say the airline industry is really the responsible party in the September 11 attacks.

What about personal responsibility for the cops making the raid? Why couldn't they have done a little leg work and research before the dog and pony show began? That's supposed to be their job, you know.

I realize drug addicts know nothing of personal responsibility and self-discipline, but that does not excuse the cops from the absence of same. We pay them to defend our society by acting responsibly, by acting like cops. If we wanted them to act like the druggies they were purportedly looking for, we'd hire the druggies themselves, and save a bundle. However, we don't. We have higher expectations for them, and rightly so.

Following your line of reasoning to it's logical conclusion:

It's the fault of the drug addicts she's dead. If they'd stop using drugs, this wouldn't have happened.

If only people didn't smoke, there'd be no lung cancer, and everyone could breathe correctly, and these people would live a long, long time.

If only people didn't waste their time and money at McDonald's, we wouldn't have an obesity problem in the country, and we'd all be healthier.

If only everyone in school really, really applied themselves, we'd have no unemployment, and the economy would always be humming right along.

If only poor people would listen to their betters, the world would be a much better place, and most all of our problems would be solved.

If only other people thought like me, there'd be no problems at all in the world, and we could all live happily ever after!

I simply cannot swallow this crap. Those cops are responsible - there is simply no other way to look at it. It did, after all, happen on their watch. They made the forced entry, not the addicts. They utilized the techniques involved, including the flash grenade, not the addicts. They subdued the woman and effected the arrest, not the addicts. They were the ones who were supposed to do their homework on the raid beforehand, not the addicts.

She's dead, without recourse. The cops will be back after a brief hiatus to play Rambo again, without penalty. The addicts will continue to smoke, swallow and shoot the drugs of their choice, meaning this woman's demise as a WoD vignette essentially makes her passing meaningless and worthless.

To argue that police misbehavior is caused by Joe Blow smoking a reefer in the privacy of his own home is disingenius, to say the least. We have police because there are bad guys out there, and we want the police to protect us from their depredations. We certainly don't want them acting like the vermin we expect them to protect us from. If you're going to say, "if only druggies would stop giving in to their addictions, stuff like this would never happen", you can also say, "If only bank robbers didn't rob banks, we wouldn't need police or security there", or "if only we didn't have bad guys, none of this Pandora's Box stuff would've happened".

This is supposed to be a free society, and those societies come with a terrific price tag. If you find that price too steep, go find another society, preferrably one that controls every aspect of a people's thoughts, movements and actions, to live in. You obviously are not comfortable here, and likewise don't belong here.

I am saddened, shocked and appalled by this story, but I'm even more dismayed by your attitude here. You display no intellectual prowress - you're just being plain mean, and it's not a pretty sight.

CA....

[A CA Guy]

They have a history of doing very well regarding their searches. Out of 1900 attempts, there is this "one" accidental death because she was very sick.

I think it should be investigated to see what went wrong.
I agree with you it is a tragedy.
But they have a success record of 99.995%. So you don't call one death a deal breaker on their department's activities when I am sure the lives saved were in the hundreds.
The one loss is bad and the hundreds of lives saved were good.
We morn and acknowledge the loss.
We also realize this is a great department that has done much good.

[A CA Guy]

We have more voting conservatives in this state that vote than any other Sam Adams impostor. We have more than most states combined.
All through the state is it very conservative. When you go to all the major cities like San Francisco, Los Angeles, Oakland and so forth, there are a huge amount of Democrats that out vote the conservatives because they owe the government their job.
It has to get worse before the voting middle goes conservative though.
We probably have a 7% greater Democrat voting population and that is why they dominate.
Plus the Libertarians, though few, also vote Democrat. So it is a tough situation here, but we do have many conservatives throughout the state.

[A CA Guy]

When you self medicate, you are violating the rights of other citizens with risky behavior that affects them, higher insurance premiums, much more hospitalization and also violent crime. Employers become at greater risk for being sued due to illegally drugged employees. Families get torn apart with addiction.

So "ANYTHING" isn't allowed.
"Anything" can easily equal "Anarchy".

[TLBSHOW]

NYPD'S NO-KNOCK SEARCHES ARE DOORWAY TO DISASTER
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/917598/posts?page=

[MrLeRoy]

When you self medicate, you are violating the rights of other citizens with risky behavior that affects them,

Drug use does not in itself affect anyone other than the user.

higher insurance premiums, much more hospitalization

No violation of rights there. When you buy an insurance policy you agree to pay premiums that pay for the costs of all covered conditions for all other purchasers; if you don't want to pay drug-related costs, buy a policy that excludes drug-related conditions.

and also violent crime.

From the U.S. Department of Justice's National Criminal Justice Reference Service (publication NCJ 145534): "Of all psychoactive substances, alcohol is the only one whose consumption has been shown to commonly increase aggression. [...] Marijuana and opiates temporarily inhibit violent behavior [...] There is no evidence to support the claim that snorting or injecting cocaine stimulates violent behavior. [...] Anecdotal reports notwithstanding, no research evidence supports the notion that becoming high on hallucinogens, amphetamines, or PCP stimulates violent behavior in any systematic manner."

Employers become at greater risk for being sued due to illegally drugged employees.

Provide evidence for your claim.

Families get torn apart with addiction.

Also true of alcohol (which is significantly more addictive than marijuana); do you support banning alcohol, or are you a hypocrite?