The Absurdity of 'Thinking in Language'

the author's site ^ | 1972 | Dallas Willard

[thinktwice]

I'm gone for at least 24 hours -- will read your link and comment later.

[Eastbound]

"Truth is, I can hardly read this kind of BS, written as it is with very few concrete nouns. The eyes just glaze over."

You have altogether too much freedom and have to be re-programmed. Sit down and look in the mirror and repeat over and over, "I am a verb" until things start making sense again. ;)

[tpaine]

fifteendogs says:
In a telepathic environment, history is based on facts, pure and indisputable facts.

Let's try a simplistic example. Spme people are standing around a tree in the forest. The tree falls to the ground. One is to the south, one to the north, one to the east an one to the west. The one to the east reports that the tree fell to his(or hers) right. The one reporting to the west reports that the tree fell to his (or hers, god how i hate pc) left. The one to the south reports that the tree fell away from them. The one to the north reports that the tree fell towards them. Please write the history of this event.

My [above] example was just what is was, a collection of facts. It wasn't right or wrong.
It was an example abouts facts from which history is written. That is all that history is, interpretation of fact. If you ignore any of the facts, you can slant history any way you wish to.
If I had written the history of the facts presented in the example I cited, I would have stated that 4 people saw a tree fall to the ground. The tree fell to the north. That is my interpretation of the facts which were at hand.
-15dog-

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Can anyone argue with this masterful proof that; --

--"In a telepathic environment, history is based on facts, pure and indisputable facts"??

I think not..

Wow! We're getting into some really, relly deep stuff here now, imo...

[Consort]

Time travel can only be accomodated by travelling back in time for it is there that the time line exists, not in the future.

Somehow, that doesn't sound right. Assuming there is a timeline, an entity living somewhere on that timeline should be able to travel forward to our time as well as backwards, as you say that we can. Just as they dwell somewhere along the timeline, then we also dwell somewhere along it and not necessarily at the end of it. The timeline would extend ahead of us as well as behind us. No?

[fifteendogs]

And your point is? Or are you simply stating that you do not possess the ability to comprehend?

[fifteendogs]

No, consider that you live on the edge of time. That most forward point in time. If time exists after you, as in the future, than you would have to do no more than to sit down and wait for all the future has to offer. You would have to do nothing. Things would just happen. But how could this be. How could you get that perfect job if you never went for an interview. How would you ever meet that perfect mate if you had never gone to that party or that bar or had accidentally run into that someone in an elevator The tmeline exists only in our past and we can only travel to the past.

[tpaine]

Comprehend what? -- That you made no point about the "telepathic environment"
was my point.

[fifteendogs]

Please forgive me, I have no idea about which you are speaking. If you are telepathic, I would love to communicate with you. If you are not, I cannot.

[Consort]

If time exists after you, as in the future, than you would have to do no more than to sit down and wait for all the future has to offer.

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If the future did not exist, then we could never get there. Every possibility exists and we use our free will and our initiative to select which possibilities we will experience.

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You would have to do nothing. Things would just happen.

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That is one of endless options. It's exactly what many people do, unfortunately.

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But how could this be. How could you get that perfect job if you never went for an interview. How would you ever meet that perfect mate if you had never gone to that party or that bar or had accidentally run into that someone in an elevator?

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By the choices we make in the present.

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The tmeline exists only in our past and we can only travel to the past.

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I don't think so. There is a future and we have a say so as to which future we will experience. Every decision we make determines which future we will experience. That's part of the reason for living.

[fifteendogs]

If what you say is true, then the definition of the timeline is incorrect. If what you say is true, there is an infinite number of paths already defined for each of us for the future. It is indeed an interesting concept of time but I must admit to not being able to comprehend its meaning. My reality and my science is based on the definition of time which I proffered in an earlier post.

My society has based its whole science and technology on that definition. Our engineering and technology have been implemented on that definition of time. I hope that you will be able to develope your science on your definition. It would be, to say the least, very interesting.

Assuming what you say to be true, how would you select which path to take? What would happen if you chose not to make a decision on which path to take?

I realize that this is simply a computer thread of little consequence, but you have proposed a very interesting hypothosis. It bears further disscussion.

[VadeRetro]

"I am a verb"

You mean, "I verb, man!"

[headsonpikes]

I think that only f. can adequately plumb your personal noospere.

Good luck to the both of you.

[Jorge]

Whether or not they are necessary in all areas...I believe that language and communications skills are vital when it comes to forming coherant thoughts, ideas and concepts on any issue.

[f.Christian]

Get an advanced degree in evolution (( alien thought )) and skip Truth - reality -- hard science (( philosophy ))-- TALKING too !

[fifteendogs]

Thank you for your input.

[tpaine]

If you are telepathic, I would love to communicate with you. If you are not, I cannot..
-15dog-

I am well aware why you cannot..
We know who is adept... And, -- who is not.

[f.Christian]

Class ...

don't let the phoney's -- bums --- break your stride ...

chin up !

[Consort]

If what you say is true, then the definition of the timeline is incorrect.

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The definition likely is incorrect and that's why we have differing opinions on it.

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If what you say is true, there is an infinite number of paths already defined for each of us for the future.

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Yes. Some call it destiny; others call it Karma. But it gives us choices and some control over our lives and it imposes responsibility for our choices in the form of rewards and punishments.

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My reality and my science is based on the definition of time which I proffered in an earlier post.

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I never assume that any definition is final, including my own.

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I hope that you will be able to develope your science on your definition.

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It's not my definition alone and there probably are people a lot smarter than me trying to develop a science around it.

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Assuming what you say to be true, how would you select which path to take?

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As I said, we make decisions and choices every day and each decision and choice that we act on puts on a new path among countless others. Your decision to join that society set that possibility in motion and it happened. You could have done many other things, instead, if you chose to do so.

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What would happen if you chose not to make a decision on which path to take?

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Then you leave it up to chance and you are not taking control of your own life or other people will lead in a different direction. It's very common.

[fifteendogs]

I have no idea as to the why of your communications to me. Most of them allow little or no sbstance from which I can derive meaning. I can only suppose that your communiques are far too profound for me to understand.

[fifteendogs]

Thanks for the encouragement. I have only the facts of what and where I am to guide me.