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To: unspun; maestro; supercat; Lorianne; RightWhale; expatpat; Servant of the Nine; laredo44; donh; ...
One purpose of language is communication, but it is not the first or primary purpose. Before we can communicate anything we must know something. That is the primary purpose of language. It is the means by which we make concepts something we can use.

For example, suppose some idiot claims he can think without language. Well, if that is true, he ought to be able to explain to us how he does it, without using language. Now, if he cannot explain it to us without using language, how did he explain it to himself. That is, after all, what thinking really is.

Some people will swallow anything, as this thread certainly proves. Others think there is no point in being careful about how their mind works or how they use it. What difference does it make if one does not bother to distinguish between, percepts, feelings, concepts (thoughts), or imaginination. Well, if your mind is a mush, I guess it doesn't matter.

Hank

64 posted on 05/23/2003 5:53:04 PM PDT by Hank Kerchief
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To: Hank Kerchief
There is a difference between a thing and our concept of that thing, and there is a difference between a concept and the word we use to express it.
68 posted on 05/23/2003 6:00:58 PM PDT by Yeti
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To: Hank Kerchief
Well, if that is true, he ought to be able to explain to us how he does it, without using language.

It depends how broadly we define language. Are the mimes using the language? In some sense they are.

69 posted on 05/23/2003 6:02:33 PM PDT by A. Pole
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To: Hank Kerchief
For example, suppose some idiot claims he can think without language. Well, if that is true, he ought to be able to explain to us how he does it, without using language.

I think without language all the time. As an architect I think spatially in forms, volumes and voids. The thoughts do not need langauge to be formulated but to communicate them I may need to build a 3D model or make a 2D drawing to convey a 3D concept. Or I could say it or write it in millions of words which still may not communicate the concept as I conceptualize it. Spatial thinking is only one example of thinking without language or symbols. Mathematicians and musicians also think without language.

88 posted on 05/23/2003 7:01:12 PM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Hank Kerchief
For example, suppose some idiot claims he can think without language.

Of what value is grammar in thinking about how to avoid being eaten by shark coming at you rapidly?

I offer the suggestion that grammatical, symbolic thinking is a comparatively sparse attempt by the rational side of your brain to put what the visceral side of your brain is putting out continuously into cute little cubby holes. And that, in fact, most of your thinking energy is spent in dreamland, making a movie, and comparing it to old movies you have in your memory banks, rather than in rational-language-land, making up syllogisms.

325 posted on 05/24/2003 10:41:06 PM PDT by donh (/)
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To: Hank Kerchief
For example, suppose some idiot claims he can think without language. Well, if that is true, he ought to be able to explain to us how he does it, without using language. Now, if he cannot explain it to us without using language, how did he explain it to himself. That is, after all, what thinking really is.

This is not a compelling logical requirement. You are assuming that only those who can explain can think. You are assuming what you wish to prove.

330 posted on 05/24/2003 10:51:19 PM PDT by donh (/)
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