Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

The Case For War Is Blown Apart
Independent UK ^ | 05-29-03

Posted on 05/29/2003 9:33:31 AM PDT by Brian S

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 221-235 next last
To: Livinglarge
Once again, the link between 9/11 and Iraq would be...

Try the fact that Bush declared that countries that sponsored terrorism either must stop or be dealt with. No direct link. But 9/11 changed this country's approach towards terror-sponsoring states. And Iraq was one of the worst of such countries (oh, and that was another violation of the 1991 cease-fire. Look it up).

161 posted on 05/29/2003 12:22:07 PM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child
That simply means that any legitimate complaints about the rationale behind the war are addressed to Congress as well as to the President.

Yes but you are trying to argue that "the case must be weak if he did publicly XYZ". I'm just reminding you that the "case" you saw on CNN is not necessarily the same "case" which was given to Congress. That case, evidently, convinced Congress.

You'd have a hard time convincing me that Congress' "approval" made Clinton's foray in Kosovo morally right.

My memory is fuzzy about Kosovo, to be honest. Because, I seem to recall that Clinton went in there under NATO, without even going to Congress first, and there was a danger he would run up against the 90-day limit (for wars w/o prior approval) imposed by the War Powers act, but the whole thing was basically retroactively "approved" by Congress eventually. Is that correct? If so, we're talking about apples and oranges here.

In any event I agree with you that Congress passing a War Powers resolution doesn't make a war "moral". But since when was that what we were talking about? You sure seem to shift your points around a lot.

Clancy's novels are built around intricate, fascinating military-related story lines with lots of intrigue and misleading angles. If he wrote one using the sequence of events that have unfolded in Iraq over the last 12 years, his publisher would have printed about 50 copies and put them right on the $2 discount rack.

Gotcha. I'll take your word for it. Still don't know what you think this is supposed to prove. Anything?

Because I was never sold on the need for the first Gulf War to begin with.

That's a reasonable answer. The problem is, once done, such things can't be undone. Given that there was a '91 Gulf War which left Saddam in power in a uneasy situation (sanctions, "500000 dying Iraqi babies", no fly zones, etc) for 12 years, escalating the war and ousting him once and for all is not necessarily a worse option for anybody than continuing the damn thing.

162 posted on 05/29/2003 12:25:08 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 139 | View Replies]

To: dirtboy
Funny how you are playing the hawk now that it suits your debating point of the moment.

LOL. As if I would otherwise be a "dove?" I am "playing the hawk" to point out a clear inconsistency here.

163 posted on 05/29/2003 12:26:22 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 133 | View Replies]

To: occam's chainsaw
See #148.
164 posted on 05/29/2003 12:26:53 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 153 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank
Because it's not a bogus point. If the U.S. effectively "stages" a war against a country with WMDs, then those WMDs aren't really a threat to the troops after all. Which means those WMDs could not possibly have been a legitimate reason for the war, and therefore any argument on this point is meaningless.

Something to note here: If the U.S. secured Saddam Hussein's "cooperation" in 1991 by agreeing to leave him in power, then what price do you think we paid to secure his "cooperation" in 2003?

165 posted on 05/29/2003 12:30:55 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 155 | View Replies]

Comment #166 Removed by Moderator

To: Livinglarge
Once again, the link between 9/11 and Iraq would be...

Since we didn't attack Iraq based on the 9/14/01 authorization of force, I don't see that a direct link to the crime of 9/11 was needed. A separate authorization of force against Iraq was sought by President Bush and obtained.

Saddam Hussein was clearly unfinished business in the Arab world, which contributed to their correct observations of the USA as a "paper tiger" until Op. Iraqi Freedom came along and blew that belief away.

What is your ideological perspective on the matter? You seem to be clearly against the War in Iraq (and maybe even the War on Terror). What's your beef with President Bush and the actions of the United States?

167 posted on 05/29/2003 12:31:48 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 157 | View Replies]

To: Joe Whitey
Exactly! We agree. It was a dog and pony show.

For what reason? So we could wait 12 years before taking Saddam out? Why not just take him out in 1991?

168 posted on 05/29/2003 12:32:33 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

Comment #169 Removed by Moderator

To: Alberta's Child
If the U.S. effectively "stages" a war against a country with WMDs, then those WMDs aren't really a threat to the troops after all.

This is just silly and insulting. You're telling me that US soldiers in 1991 never were under any threat from WMDs all along?

Which means those WMDs could not possibly have been a legitimate reason for the war, and therefore any argument on this point is meaningless.

Argument on this point is meaningless, but only because your statements are ridiculous.

Something to note here: If the U.S. secured Saddam Hussein's "cooperation" in 1991 by agreeing to leave him in power, then what price do you think we paid to secure his "cooperation" in 2003?

I have no idea what you're getting at.

170 posted on 05/29/2003 12:33:36 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Alberta's Child
If the U.S. effectively "stages" a war against a country with WMDs, then those WMDs aren't really a threat to the troops after all. Which means those WMDs could not possibly have been a legitimate reason for the war, and therefore any argument on this point is meaningless.

Wrong logic again, dude. The primary position of Bush about these weapons was NOT that the weapons were a major threat to US troops. The point was that the weapons were a threat, were they to land in the hands of terrorists, against US CIVILIANS - just as four civilian 767s were not a threat against a fighter plane, but killed thousands of civilians.

What a weasel.

171 posted on 05/29/2003 12:34:09 PM PDT by dirtboy (someone kidnapped dirtboy and replaced him with an exact replica)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 165 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank
I'm just reminding you that the "case" you saw on CNN is not necessarily the same "case" which was given to Congress.

I agree with you 100%. But this also means that the "case" that was given to Congress may have had absolutely nothing to do with weapons of mass destruction.

Which is really the point here, isn't it?

172 posted on 05/29/2003 12:34:43 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 162 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank
You're telling me that US soldiers in 1991 never were under any threat from WMDs all along?

Were they?

173 posted on 05/29/2003 12:35:44 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

Comment #174 Removed by Moderator

To: Joe Whitey
This is a place where conservatives get together and discuss issues. No specific person or politician should be given a "free pass" because they call themselves a conservative or are part of the Republican Party.

I'm not giving him a "free pass". I just happen to agree with him, and it just seems like all the anti-war FReepers are all-of-the-sudden becoming quite vocal again, when it was quite clear before the war that 90-95% of us were for Op. Iraqi Freedom. What is there to discuss?

I believe that Saddam Hussein moved, hid, or destroyed the weapons before Op. Iraqi Freedom to make us look stupid.

You believe that Bush misled us.

What does that say about your beliefs, other than the fact that you don't even trust conservative politicians? And if that is the case, what is your goal here? Do you vote? Did you vote for Bush? If not, why? If so, how is it that you think he (and not Saddam) is the one who misled you?

175 posted on 05/29/2003 12:36:55 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 166 | View Replies]

To: Joe Whitey
The second reason is for you to ponder. Ask yourself that again, "If Saddam was such a threat, to us and the world, why didn't WE take him out in 1991".

Because President Bush 41 was a complete wussy, and didn't want to offend the UN?

176 posted on 05/29/2003 12:38:06 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 174 | View Replies]

To: Joe Whitey
Nah, they are calculating politicians and people in a position of power. Nothing more, nothing less.

Did you vote for them in 2000?

177 posted on 05/29/2003 12:38:35 PM PDT by SunStar (Democrats piss me off!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 169 | View Replies]

To: Dr. Frank
I have no idea what you're getting at.

Ask yourself that question. If the U.S. effectively negated the threat of Saddam Hussein's WMDs in 1991 by agreeing to leave him in power (why else would he refrain from using them? -- he had to know that there was an up--side), and you stated that the U.S. could have negated the threat of Saddam Hussein's WMDs in a similar manner in 2003, then we would have had to offer him something in return. Clearly we didn't offer to let him stay in power, so what was it?

178 posted on 05/29/2003 12:38:56 PM PDT by Alberta's Child
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 170 | View Replies]

Comment #179 Removed by Moderator

Comment #180 Removed by Moderator


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 141-160161-180181-200 ... 221-235 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson