Nature or Nurture?

Radiofree West Hartford ^ | June 02, 2003 | Mark Publius

[John O]

If the nurture argument is correct 100% of the time, why do the vast majority of gays have heterosexual siblings?

There are three causes to 'homosexuality' (really it's Same-sex Attraction Disorder or SAD)

1. Molestation.
2. An absent or insufficient relationship with one's father
3. Rejection by ones peers during the formative years

My brother is trapped in the SAD lifestyle due to reason 2. He hated dad and dad didn't care to much for him either.

Homosexual behavior is always by nurture. You have to remember that nurture includes the actions of people outside the family. If one brother is molested at school by a 'homosexual' teacher and the other isn't it's quite likely that the molested one will have sexual deviancy problems of his own but the undamaged one will be sexually healthy.

[John O]

Gays have the same rights excepting marriage,

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO.

SADs have exactly the same rights that we do. A SAD has the exact same right to marry that I do. He can marry the woman of his choosing just as I can (assuming that the women agree of course). They do not deserve special rights just because they choose to remain mentally diseased

[riri]

Do you have any insight into why someone who was molested as a youth, then goes on to become a homosexual? It is mind boggling to me.

I am experiencing something like this right now. Someone who I was very close with growing up has begun to have marraige problems. He made a statement to my sister (it is my nephew) that "he has been feeling this way since 1992" My sister did not let him continue the conversation because she was in complete fear that was what he was going to say.

Troubling as that is, and it is agonizing. There has always been some suspicion that he was molested by a gay priest in school.(he attended an all boys Catolic military type private school) Also that same priest tried to get involved in his life after he graduated high school, at a time when he was going through a particularly rough period.

Any insight would be appreciated. I am so afraid he is going to make the proclamation that he is gay. He meets all three of those "conditions" posted earlier.

[netmilsmom]

And may I add that in females, it is lack of emotion from her mother? My mother did not want children and was alcoholic. My gay sister was the first grandchild and smothered with affection by my grandmother until my next sister was born. The first sister has always HATED the next. My mother did not make it easier for her in that she was a distant mother. My sister has always grasped for the love of another woman. In my case, my mother's affection was made up by my dad. At the time my gay sister was young, my dad was working two jobs and going to school. He was able to spend more time with me.
It's funny though, I am the only one of my siblings that has not had a threesome and I have the nice stable marriage and great kids.
Parents, tell your kids you are so proud that they are yours. Kiss and hug them. Smother them with love and discipline them with love. You may be preventing as much as you are nurturing.

[Darksheare]

The crazy people over at Ifilm know.
It's all here in the short film "Don't ask Don't tell"
The easily offended, those with no sense of humor, or the generally lacking in humor should not click link to avoid flameage problems.

Silly link here: http://tv.lycos.com/ot_lycos_player.asp?s=shorts&c=2434761_ifilm



(It's a conspiracy! It's aliens with a 'gay laser'!)
/ trying to lighten the day with some offbeat humor.

[Darksheare]

People who are raped, or molested, tend to go one of two ways:
1.)They end up being sexually promiscuous.
2.)They end up disliking sex.

Various subcategories exist there between them.
one would be: Dislikes having sex with opposite sex, yet finds same sex appealing. Enjoys having sex with same sex for reasons of pure sexual promiscuity.

(These are not purely psychological categories, these are 'classes' of behavior that people do when confronted with violent sexual assault or mental neglect. Some people end up sexually promiscuous or frigid due to neglect of one parent or the other as well.)

[ffusco]

The Damned Bump

[John O]

From what I've read, a common defense mechanism for someone who has been attacked is to identify with their attacker.

This same methodology works with people who have been abducted (patty hearst among others).

In order to alleviate the shame of the attack (especially in molestation cases) the victim identifies with the attacker. If he likes men then maybe I really like men too. This is an attempt to take away the wrongness of the action. (Somewhere I have a link to this discussion. If I can find it I'll get it to you)

Take encouragement that even if someone meets all three of those conditions it is not a death sentence to live a life of perversion. (I meet all three also and am perfectly healthy (heterosexual)). Once you know what's wrong it's easier to fix it or get help to fix it.

I'd encourage your friend to seek counseling. Either from exodus or from NARTH or from Pure Life Ministries. All of which have had success in healing people and/or keeping them from falling into this lifestyle in the first place.

[John O]

I agree entirely. It takes two parents, a man married to a woman, who love each other to raise healthy kids. Nothing else works as well.

[John O]

Again I agree. I seem to notice this reaction (straight promiscuity) more in girls than in boys however. I guess it could be in boys too but I've just never seen the cause. It could explain those guys who feel they have to prove their manhood all the time though.

[JohnGalt]

With logic like this:

"In other words, the gay rights lobby should not be treated in the same way as the civil rights and gender rights lobby."

suggesting that somehow one liberal program is different than the other two liberal programs, the moral battle has already been lost. How can one speak fondly of two disasterous "rights" movements that trumped thousands of years of property law, "civil rights" and "gender rights", and then ask to exclude some other special rights group?

[Darksheare]

Yes.
It is, honestly, more obvious in women/girls because they aren't supposed to be sexually aggressive OR brazen.
Men are thought of as being after it all the time anyway, so it wouldn't be noticed much at all.
Kinda like a wisper behind a scream, it'd be largely invisible unless one was looking for it and knew what they were looking for.
I've seen (women in particular) go the promiscuous route firsthand.
One even said, "I have sex with people to get them to like me. I do it so they'll be my friends."

On another thread dealing with colleges offering 'porno classes' for all students, I mentioned some of the young misses in my area.
Our schools, and our supposed 'great thinkers' are churning out women, and men, who are going to be tomorrow's sexual predators.

Who will in turn churn out more damaged peple and continue the cycle.

An unfortunate, and sad, subnote to life.

[Sir Francis Dashwood]

An Infidel's Supplemental Conclusion

Plato's Euthyphro and Apology are great illustrations. Socrates advances the argument to Euthyphro that, piety to the gods, who all want conflicting devotions and/or actions from humans, is impossible.

Likewise, morals are such a construction of idols used by the Left as a rationale for them to demand compliance to their wishes in politics, which most often are a skewed mess of fallacies in logic. Morals are a deceptive replacement for the avoidance of sin. If a person believes in a God, it is the conviction of the Holy Ghost by which they are guided and not by the idolatrous vanities of morals constructed by others.

Plato's Apology is a drama that portrays the current Left wing frustration with talk radio in America. The people of Athens (the Left) are demanding that Socrates (Rush) be silent. Socrates refuses and the elite of Athens demand the execution of Socrates. The modern Left wants a figurative execution of Rush Limbaugh and others like him (although 'figurative' would be quickly made actual if the Left ever had the unchecked power they desire).

Radio is the focus of only one of the five senses. A listener has to really tune in to the subject matter and focus on the content of the ideas. Television is a combination of sensory focus and it is far easier to distract and misdirect viewer attention from essential topics presented.

Considering that 90% of people tend to be more influenced by the visual, television has become a new religion. It is analogous to Plato's cave allegory and the Oracle of Delphi. Television as a propaganda tool helps create visual phantasms (or as Thomas Hobbes called them, 'phantastical images') of the brain.

There are three ways people are influenced according to the school of behavioral psychology - - visual (sight), auditory (sound), kinesthetic (emotion). The kinesthetic or 'feeling' is also based on olfactory and tactile sense, much like Pavlov's salivating dogs. Visual images and sound portrayed can be used to anchor emotional and/or conditioned responses desired by those that present them, which in the case of television, is the Leftist television media, actors who create phantastical images in film, and Leftist politicians who pander to symbolism over substance (like Rush always says about them).

The visual aspect of that phenomenon is also used by the print media to a degree. Interactive talk radio requires thought; television does not and relies on this as a means to influence viewers...

They worship for gods 'those appearances that remain in the brain from the impression of external bodies upon the organs of their senses, which are commonly called ideas, idols, phantasms, conceits, as being representations of those external bodies which cause them, and have nothing in them of reality, no more than there is in the things that seem to stand before us in a dream...'

Like the necromancy of the late Senator Wellstone's funeral rally, or "funerally" (see the Steven Plaut article, The Rise Of Tikkun Olam Paganism, in reference to the Wellstone brand of Judaism), the use of Martin Luther King Day, or constantly invoking the "spirit of the '60's," the Left attempts to raise spirits of the dead as a totem for worship. This was also done with respect to Diana, Princess of Wales, following her "tragic" death in 1997.

Consider the seemingly coincidental circumstance that Diana is also the name of a pagan Greek goddess, and idolatry. The figurative deification of Princess Diana and the massive outpouring of public grief are a form of civil worship. The heaping of flowers at Kensington Palace as if it were a shrine, melodramatic eulogizing and the political expressions of how the world should comply with her posthumous intent concerning certain issues is a modern use of idolatry. Royalty magazine, in a special edition, had a large drop quote spanning across two pages: "She needed no royal title…to generate her particular brand of magic." The whole magazine was dedicated to pet Leftist political causes mixed in with the pictures and soliloquy about her sainthood.

This idolatry also partly played into the modern conflict of pagan vs. Judaic concerning her billionaire playboy lover, Dodi Al Fayed. Although many consider Islamic belief to be of Judaic origin, it is pagan. The crescent symbolizing Islam was also used to symbolize the pagan goddesses (Diana, Isis, etc.) and is used by modern neo-pagan nut cases as an icon. The use of the meteorite at the Dome of the Rock as an excuse to label it an Islamic holy site, is idolatry. This is contrary to the idea that Muslim faith is monotheistic.

There is a clear connection between modern neo-paganism and ancient paganism related to Islamic conflict with the Judaic roots of Christendom, as I have shown earlier. A focus on how this is manifested in a modern sense only requires a look at pop-culture icons in entertainment, sports "heroes," and attempts by the Left to use a pseudo-Christian sense of pagan moralistic idolatry to demonize political opposition. (I present to you U.S. Senator Rick Santorum as a useful example.)

Astrology is another blatant example of pagan idolatry. What else is it? The planets have the names of pagan gods. The constellations are grouped as phantastical images of mythical legends. The astrologers are revered as prophets by psychotic, neurotic adherents in frequent fanatical devotion to any musings these charlatans utter. The proliferation of psychics, seers, soothsayers, healers, gurus, etc., etc., ad nauseum, is a social psychosis, an occulted (or masked) promotion of Leftist propaganda (see the Paglia lecture at Yale Cults and Cosmic Consciousness: Religious Vision in the American 1960s).

Marxism and their forms of Cultural Marxism are a religion, a collection of cults. In many cases they worship a dead Karl Marx like some (and I stress some) Christians worship a dead Jesus, and not a living God. This is no more apparent than in the practice of enshrinement and regular grooming of Lenin's corpse in the former Soviet Union, the use of Princess Diana, Martin Luther King Jr. and others.

It is the religious fervor associated with the pro-abortion advocacy. The societal practice of abortion is ritual mass murder upon the altars dedicated to idolatrous vanities, a collective human sacrifice to pagan idols. It has a similitude to the Teutonic paganism of Adolph Hitler, whose idolatry was the idea of a "master race." In effect, this genocide was a mass human sacrifice to those pagan idols.

The idolatry of perversion is another totem of the Left. Homosexuality is an idolatry of perversion. Gay marriage advocacy is a cult of perversion. Pornography is an idolatry of perversion. Much of television, movies, and the literary culture of the Leftist elite in print, are nothing more than a cleverly masked promotion of their Marxist cult (that is to say, masked much like actors of ancient Greek drama).

The Left is properly identified with a 'confederacy of deceivers (and perverts) that, to obtain dominion over men in this present world, endeavor, by obscure and erroneous doctrines.'

Part of this is the promotion of "public radio." The government funded NPR and other "public radio" non-profit Leftist crap is not making it. While I am not enamoured with some of the canned music formats of much commercial radio, I am no fan of the Leftist non-profit NPR like stations that play third world, grass skirt, bone-in-the-nose voodoo music either, with the touchy feely multi-cultural, anti-USA Leftist commentary of the hosts. These people actually think they are clever.

Also part of this is the loss of broadcasting licenses by "public radio" stations to a company that is buying licenses to broadcast Christian programming. This is pushing many Leftist public radio stations off the air.

There is more to this issue than most people realize and it is not exclusive to the attack on talk radio (although that is a big part of it). Why else does the Left complain about what others watch and listen to?

The Left is obsessed with erecting idols, images and symbols to hide their agenda(s), as well as to expand their congregation in these cults of perversion...

 

Food for thought...

[RobbyS]

A very wise man, about 35 years ago, warned that divorcing sexuality from its procreative purpose would create a slippery slope upon which definitive curbs upon sexual behavior would become impossible. (Pope Paul VI, Humanae Vitae. I think we have arrived.

And who would have guessed that the man's role in procreation would be so reduced that the children would be regarded as the woman's property and responsibility and the man's place of father so devalued.

[apackof2]

therefore I feel my cousin was indeed born gay

Why because he exhibited female interests?
Just because a boy shows more interest in dolls than trucks does not
mean he was born homosexual
Boys like that get labeled homosexual (and label themselves)because the interest is an assumed association by society.
And indeeed there may be a gentic propensity to female interests or same sex attraction but one still has TO CHOOSE TO ACT upon it.

ITS STILL A CHOICE

[RobbyS]

My guess is that most "sissies" are not homosexual by nature.

[RobbyS]

The civil rights movement and the women's right movements were essentially different. The latter is dominated by a special interest group: white middle class women. The former was the political rebellion of a racial minority.

[Clint N. Suhks]

People who are raped, or molested, tend to go one of two ways: 1.)They end up being sexually promiscuous. 2.)They end up disliking sex.

What about the ones that turn out OK for what ever reasons, therapy, self motivation, religion...

It would seem there's an exception to every rule.

[KeepUSfree]

I believe that we will find that the closest analogy for "being gay" is "left or right-handedness". You may have a "natural predisposition" towards one....but it can be overcome. I am "naturally" left handed. However, in my youth, my older brother forbade me to bat left-handed (he would beat me up!). So, now "batting right-handed" is now normal and batting left handed - although I can do it - is not as comfortable. This was due to pressure during my developmental years. I DO believe that some folks are just naturally gay. However, I think we will find that MANY gays were actually "pushed" there at a young age and now it just feels natural for them to "bat the other way".