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The big guns are getting mighty desperate. The shrillness in quest of bragging rights to the superior liberal viewpoint is deafening!
1 posted on 06/05/2003 10:31:14 AM PDT by LurkedLongEnough
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To: LurkedLongEnough
true democracy = communism (as defined)

We live in a Constitutional Republic - NOT in a democracy
2 posted on 06/05/2003 10:33:08 AM PDT by steplock ( http://www.spadata.com)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
The tyranny of the rich. . .

Barbara Streisand

Tim Robbins/Susan Sarandon

Dixie Chicks

etc

etc

etc

3 posted on 06/05/2003 10:37:11 AM PDT by MEGoody
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To: *Taxreform
Payroll taxes on the poor is a red herring. That's what the EITC is for. More social engineering nonsense from Kinsley.

Kinsley, you nitwit, people who don't pay taxes don't get tax cuts!!!

4 posted on 06/05/2003 10:37:38 AM PDT by kevkrom (Dump the income tax -- support an NRST!)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
Our minimum-wage worker most likely falls into one of the unadvertised holes in the Bush something-for-everyone tax cut.

The people who ALWAYS get screwed when it comes to tax cuts are single people.
6 posted on 06/05/2003 10:45:30 AM PDT by John Lenin (Government does not solve problems, it subsidizes them)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
A minimum-wage worker today must pay the FICA payroll tax of 15 percent (if you include the employer's share, as economists agree you should) on the very first dollar she earns. If she has children, she may qualify for an earned income tax credit, but she may not. If she works hard and moves up the income scale, she'll soon be paying another 15 percent in income tax. You might call this "double taxation," but President Bush doesn't.

Mr. Kinsley's logic here is comical. Mixing income taxes and FICA taxes serves his purpose in this case, but the reality is that FICA taxes are allocated to specific Federal entitlement programs. The hypothetical minimum-wage worker he describes sends her children to public schools (and they get free meals at school in the process), but she doesn't pay a nickel to the Department of Education. They enjoy the protection of the U.S. military, but she doesn't pay a nickel to the Department of Defense. Etc., etc., etc.

Of course, Kinsley can't look at it this way because the logical outcome of this kind of analysis would force him to conclude that the only "fair" tax system would require either the elimination of FICA taxes or a flat income tax for all workers.

So, under the American tax system as designed by the Bush administration and congressional Republicans, the most a person of vast wealth is expected to contribute to the commonweal from his or her last dollar of investment profits is the same 15 cents or so that a minimum-wage worker is expected to pay on his or her first dollar.

So a person who earns $10,000 contributes $1,500 "to the commonweal" (the "commonweal," as I have shown above, being nothing more than Social Security and Medicare), but a person who earns $1 million and doesn't contribute any more than $150,000 is somehow getting away with something?

7 posted on 06/05/2003 10:45:38 AM PDT by Alberta's Child
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To: LurkedLongEnough
Capitalism is protected from democracy...

This is such utter drivel that I'm thinking Kinsley will be embarrassed by it if he's embarrassed by anything - democracy is a political system based on people voting directly on issues rather than channeling that vote through a representative; capitalism is an economic system wherein surplus funds are redirected by their owners to funding other enterprises. They do not conflict. One does not need to be "protected" from the other.

What Kinsley evidently means is that a society with egalitarian ideals must permit inequality if it is to run a capitalist economic system. And so it must. But a society with egalitarian ideals is not the same thing as a society intending to enforce equal possession of wealth by state fiat. It is the latter to which the redistributionist nostrums so beloved to the left pertain. It is perfectly true that you cannot attain equal distribution of wealth across a society under capitalism; it is equally true that you can't obtain it under a state mandated socialism either. You can aspire, you can idealize, you can theorize, but you just can't make it happen, and every attempt to do so on a national level without a single exception has, in practice, increased unequal distribution of wealth rather than decreased it. In short, Kinsley's social theory is crap and he'll never admit it.

8 posted on 06/05/2003 10:47:28 AM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: LurkedLongEnough
Communism didn't fall, only it's major hosts perished.
Like a parasite, communism buried itself in the UN, in the DNC, in newsrooms and in Transnational corporate headquarters around the globe, and still festers and grows in thirld world backwaters everywhere.

It's just waiting it's chance. Waiting for it's Queen, Hillarious the Worst.
14 posted on 06/05/2003 11:02:49 AM PDT by the gillman@blacklagoon.com (Every so often, 'live free or die' involves dying.)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
The Democraps practices of the "Politics of FEAR, DIVISION, and HATRED are alive and well!
15 posted on 06/05/2003 11:03:26 AM PDT by leprechaun9
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To: LurkedLongEnough
A minimum-wage worker today must pay the FICA payroll tax of 15 percent (if you include the employer's share, as economists agree you should) ...

I don't believe this is true. When determing revenue sources for the Federal Budget, yes, you include the employer's share, but the tax burden on the individual is still only 7.5%. He's stretching definitions in order to fit his square peg into a round hole. Surprise, surprise.

16 posted on 06/05/2003 11:08:11 AM PDT by Catalonia
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To: LurkedLongEnough
"Democracy presumes and enshrines equality."

Uhh...no. Democracy gives one an equal voice not equality in all aspects of life.

"Capitalism is protected from democracy..."

Representative government cannot exist without the free market and vice versa.

17 posted on 06/05/2003 11:20:03 AM PDT by jjm2111
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To: LurkedLongEnough
Protecting democracy from capitalism is the noble intention, at least, of campaign finance laws that get enacted every couple of decades.

We know, and the liberals know, that campaign finance reform was mainly rhetoric by a few to smear the many, mainly those mean spirited friends of the rich, the Republicans. The left revealed very quickly that they had already figured on how to exploit the loopholes and they were also depending on the continuing support of the media for free campaign support for leftists causes. They only wanted to handicap and limit the Republicans and since the Republicans get most of their money through small contributions from the many, to limit the American citizens in their selection of leaders.

It all boils down to electing honest leaders and having a open, objective, and honest media to keep track of them and their activities. You and yours have not done such a good job in that area, have you? Protecting dishonesty, sexual abuse, and treason is not what the founders had in mind.

There are so many weak points to Kinsley's arguments that his intention must have been to give the mental gymnasts on the left some sort of obtuse argument to spout.

A minimum-wage worker today must pay the FICA payroll tax of 15 percent (if you include the employer's share, as economists agree you should) on the very first dollar she earns. If she has children, she may qualify for an earned income tax credit, but she may not. If she works hard and moves up the income scale, she'll soon be paying another 15 percent in income tax. You might call this "double taxation," but President Bush doesn't.

That is your beloved Social Security you are talking about, Michael. Although we know it is a scam you have to at least pretend to go along with the idea that the deductions are investments in the future, don['t you? I mean, there really is a trust fund, isn't there? So, these are not taxes at all but government sponsored investments for our old age, right? Funny, when Republicans argue that the FICA is really just another income tax and that the employee actually pays it all you liberals argue against that saying that, no, the employer pays half. When it suits you, though, you easily jump to the other side of the fence. As far as this hypothetical employee moving up the ladder and getting taxed more, that is not a Bush deal, that is the progressive income tax you liberals love and cherish in order to punish achievement.

Now look at the fellow who has a few millions or billions. He probably has paid no income tax on most of that pile, since investment profits are taxed only when they are "realized"?i.e., cashed in. Any investment profits that he hasn't cashed in when he cashes in himself escape the income tax forever. If he can hold on for a few years, under current plans, the estate tax will die before he does. His investment income also is exempt from the 15 percent FICA tax that hits the minimum-wage worker at dollar 1.

Once again, Michael, you forget whose money this is. You consider it the government's money from which these greedy individuals are refusing to turn loose. Number one, Michael, and this ought to be embarrassing even to you, If an asset has not been cashed in (sold, etc.) then it is really only assets on paper, or potential wealth. I suppose he could borrow against it but it is not actual disposable income until he sells it. Now, just to make you happy, other governments tax those assets if they are in the form of real property. It is called a property tax. Ever heard of it?

Like I said, Michael, this article is too rich in targets to even be fun.

20 posted on 06/05/2003 11:30:51 AM PDT by Mind-numbed Robot (Not all things that need to be done need to be done by the government.)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
While the logic in this article escapes the sane, let's use it to our advantage. Let's say, "We agree FICA taxes and income taxes are double taxation. We therefore should cut everyone's taxes by the amount of the double taxation."

That will help them see the rightousness of the conservative position on taxes. OK. Well ... at least frustrate liberals more.
22 posted on 06/05/2003 1:07:09 PM PDT by playball0 (Fortune favors the bold)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
Idiots. Someone here did the charts and the middle class get most of the cuts by percentage.
I am sick of death of multimillionaire democrats trying to pin richness on Republicans. How can anyone be stupid enough not to see right through that lie from the pits of hell?
26 posted on 06/05/2003 8:26:54 PM PDT by ladyinred
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To: LurkedLongEnough
'Tyranny of the rich'??

Hey Kinsley -- (yawn)

Must be getting near that time again -- RAT tradition declares EVERY Presidential campaign MUST be infected with the felicious charge of "Republicans -- Party of the Rich."

29 posted on 06/05/2003 8:37:22 PM PDT by F16Fighter (Democrats -- The Party of Stalin and Chiraq)
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To: LurkedLongEnough
If Warren Buffet is holding dividend-paying stocks in a taxable account, I'll eat my hat.

This piece is SO lame that I hardly know where to start.
30 posted on 06/05/2003 9:53:06 PM PDT by walden
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