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To: adam_az
ad 1) I don´t think that there´s a need for "right of the earliest". Two peoples (Israeli and Palestinian) live in a small land. Both have been there since... ever. The land should be divided (Gaza, WB to Palestinians), with safe borders (fences, maybe mines, etc).

ad 2) Yes, I think all settlers should leave Gaza and WB. This land should be given to the Palestinians, btw, Jews wouldn´t be safe there either.

ad 3) If you meant with #3 that Palestinian people, who were forced to move to Gaza and WB ("refugees"), should be given the right to go back, I´d say no. Like the settlers should leave Gaza and WB, no Palestinian should live in the Israeli homeland (and I do exclude Gaza and WB of that homeland).
29 posted on 06/05/2003 3:05:45 PM PDT by Michael81Dus
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To: Michael81Dus
"I don´t think that there´s a need for "right of the earliest". Two peoples (Israeli and Palestinian) live in a small land. Both have been there since... ever. The land should be divided (Gaza, WB to Palestinians), with safe borders (fences, maybe mines, etc)."

Even though most of the "Palestinians" are the descendents of recent immigrants who moved to Israel because of the economic opportunity created by Diaspora Jews returning to their homeland?

If you think the "Palestinians" are an ancient people - going back in history, when and where was their country called Palestine? Who were it's leaders? What were it's great cultural achievements? The truth is that the Palestinian identity was coined *after* 1967. There was no Palestinian identity or national movement before 1948, or between 1948 and 1967 for that matter.

"Yes, I think all settlers should leave Gaza and WB. This land should be given to the Palestinians, btw, Jews wouldn´t be safe there either."

The "West Bank" is an artificiality that was illegally occupied by Jordan after 1948. It contains the Tomb of the Patriarch, which is Abrahams tomb. Hebron is the most ancient Jewish city, and has had continuous Jewish inhabitance for about 3500 years give or take (I'm not an archaeologist) with the exception of the Jordanian expulsion. There are 1.3 million Palestinian CITIZENS of Israel - why should Jews not be able to live in a future Palestine?

" If you meant with #3 that Palestinian people, who were forced to move to Gaza and WB ("refugees"), should be given the right to go back, I´d say no. Like the settlers should leave Gaza and WB, no Palestinian should live in the Israeli homeland (and I do exclude Gaza and WB of that homeland)."

They weren't FORCED to move by Israelis - they were URGED to leave temporarily to allow the genocidal Arab attack in 1948 to move in and destroy everything and kill all the Jews.

The real problem is Arab rejectionism of the right for Israel to exist. Israel has tried to make peace with it's neighbors for 55 years, but there hasn't ever been a willing participant on the other side, except for the cold peace with Jordan and Egypt that is only paid for by US tax dollars to a monarchy and a dicatorship.

You are not an antisemite, but I would say that your knowlege of recent and ancient Middle East history is lacking enough that the opinions you expressed are not based on real data, but rather on popular oft-repeated misconceptions.
31 posted on 06/05/2003 3:24:01 PM PDT by adam_az
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To: Michael81Dus
ad 1) I don´t think that there´s a need for "right of the earliest". Two peoples (Israeli and Palestinian) live in a small land….

Forget about Biblical interpretations. The modern political landscape of the middle east was shaped by the defeat of the German-Turkish alliance in WWI. The land belonged to Tukey. The Turks picked the wrong side, lost the war, and lost the land. The Brits and French got to divide it up, which they did. Go back and read the background in the Treaty of Paris and the British mandate (the Balfour Declaration would give you some good background as well, though it’s pre WWI). It all started at the same time. The incipient dream of the Jewish state, the incipient dreams of terrorist states like Syria and Iraq.

The original Jewish homeland was dramatically reduced when TransJordan was detached in 1922. The Brits priority was creating Arab states which they did, from Syria to Saudi Arabia. They dragged their feet till after WWII, when they quit and turned it over to the UN.

Israel got the tiny stub left from their original projected state, settled for it, and then, as now got on with the job of defending themselves from the Arab hordes who have refused every effort to recognize a Jewish state in the middle east.

If Israel is an illegitimate state, so is Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, et al. Israel’s legal claim to the West Bank and Gaza is as strong as anyones, no state claims the land. Neither Turkey, nor Jordan, nor Egypt, the nations who previously administered that land claim them.

Re, that Palestinian people, who were forced to move to Gaza and WB ("refugees"), should be given the right to go back, I´d say no. Like the settlers should leave Gaza and WB, no Palestinian should live in the Israeli homeland, that’s nonsense. First of all, plenty of Arabs (that’s what Palestinians are) live in Israel. They work, vote, have their own political parties, serve in the IDF (volunteer), serve in the Knesst, have served on the Supreme Court. The issue isn’t Arabs living in Israel. It’s Jews anywhere in the mideast (including Israel) which is unacceptable to the Arab world, unless they’re dead. Even then, they have a history of using the gravestones to pave the roads. Your approach to this topic is naïve.

33 posted on 06/05/2003 3:31:49 PM PDT by SJackson
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