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U.S. tech workers feeling pinch of new world economy
2003 Copley News Service ^ | June 10, 2003 | Phyllis Schlafly

Posted on 06/10/2003 10:48:40 AM PDT by Rodsomnia

U.S. tech workers feeling pinch of new world economy Phyllis Schlafly (archive)

June 10, 2003 | Print | Send

The Boston Globe revealed why tens of thousands of information technology jobs have been outsourced overseas in the past couple of years, and why major U.S. banks, brokerage houses and insurance companies plan to ship 500,000 more jobs abroad in the next five years.

A graduate of the Indian Institutes of Technology with a master's in business administration can be hired for $12,000. Compare that to the average starting salary or $102,338 for a Harvard Business School graduate.

The figure of a half-million jobs was reported by business consulting firm A.T. Kearney Inc., which surveyed 100 major companies. It is all a matter of money; the big banks are following the trail to Asia blazed by Microsoft Corp. and IBM.

A study by Forrester Research of Cambridge, Mass., estimates that the rush to export U.S. jobs will accelerate, and that U.S. corporations will send 3.3 million jobs overseas by 2015. India is expected to get 70 percent because many Indians speak English.

The future is now. U.S. companies already employ Indians to do research and development, prepare tax returns, evaluate health insurance claims, transcribe doctors' medical notes, analyze financial data, dun for overdue bills, read CAT scans, create presentations for investment banks, and more.

J.P. Morgan Chase & Co. is planning to set up an equity research department in Bombay, India, and build up its Technopolis, India, office to 1,100 employees by the end of this year. Delta Air Lines has contracted with two Indian companies to handle some reservations.

Morgan Stanley plans to experiment with hiring stock analysts in India, and Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Citigroup are studying the benefits of shipping research jobs to India. Industry observers say that every bank on Wall Street will soon reap the cost benefits of the inexhaustible supply of business graduates in India eager to work for as little as 10 percent of the market rate in New York or London.

General Electric Co. shifted software development and back-office jobs to India under Chief Executive Officer Jack Welch. Today, GE's Indian engineers are contracted for tasks as sophisticated as analyzing the materials for and the design of engines for new jet airplanes.

Not only U.S. steelworkers and blue-collar manufacturing workers are getting shafted by the global economy. So are smart college graduates. As one executive, who has no shame about replacing U.S. citizens with foreigners, said, "If it can be done by sitting at a desk in front of a computer, then it can be done abroad."

Some U.S. companies, such as American Express Co., are using Indians to service U.S. customers by telephone. The Indians adopt Western names (Sanjeep becomes Sam, Radhika turns into Ruth), learn how to avoid British colloquialisms and take speech therapy so that they sound like American.

Many U.S. companies subcontract with Indian software-serving companies, especially with the three largest: The Tata Group of Companies, Infosys Technologies Ltd. and Wipro Technologies. These companies transfer their employees to the United States on L-1 visas, which are supposed to be issued only to key employees.

Business Week reported that L-1 visas were the ticket of entry to take a U.S. job for half of Tata's 5,000 workers, for one-third of Infosys' 3,000 U.S.-based workers, and for 32 percent of Wipro's U.S. employees. L-1 visas enable Indian workers to replace U.S. workers. Many of these Indian workers bring their spouses and children to the United States on L-2 visas.

New Jersey residents were shocked to learn that state officials had hired contractors who in turn arranged for operators working in Bombay to handle calls from the state's welfare recipients. New Mexico residents were shocked when KOAT-TV reported that the state hired aliens as computer programmers in the Taxation and Revenue Department and paid private attorneys to process their work visas.

The large amount of taxpayer-paid computer work performed by non-citizens for at least 12 state governments and nine federal agencies is a scandal crying out for investigation.

Age discrimination is a significant factor in the layoffs of U.S. citizens. The termination rate for those over age 40 is generally 10 times higher than for those under 40, and even those as young as 35 are at risk.

Sun Microsystems Inc. is defending itself against a lawsuit alleging that it laid off 2,500 older U.S. workers and replaced them with young, lower-paid workers from India. The lawsuit alleges that Sun discriminated on race, national origin and age, and that Sun manifested an "institutional bias" in favor of Indian workers because they are "more compliant" and "less willing to make waves."

Not only is the claim made by many tech companies that the United States suffers a shortage of computer programmers and engineers a fraud, but so is the claim that the aliens they import have specialized knowledge that is needed to retain the tech industry's competitive edge. In fact, most foreigners coming in on H-1B or L-1 visas are ordinary workers making ordinary salaries.

©2003 Copley News Service


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Government
KEYWORDS: h1b; immigration; jobmarket; jobs; l1; outsourcing; phyllisschlafly
Outsourcing goverment workers seems like a good idea to me.

Once enough of them (government workers) are unemployed we might get some immigrtation and tax relief.

Fear of the private sector is a powerful motivator.

1 posted on 06/10/2003 10:48:40 AM PDT by Rodsomnia
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To: Rodsomnia
Morgan Stanley plans to experiment with hiring stock analysts in India

Hard to see how they could do any worse than the domestic ones...

2 posted on 06/10/2003 10:50:36 AM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Rodsomnia
Be afraid. Be very afraid.
3 posted on 06/10/2003 10:52:12 AM PDT by Sgt Hulka 123
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To: Rodsomnia
Business Week reported that L-1 visas were the ticket of entry to take a U.S. job for half of Tata's 5,000 workers, for one-third of Infosys' 3,000 U.S.-based workers, and for 32 percent of Wipro's U.S. employees. L-1 visas enable Indian workers to replace U.S. workers.

There are some reports that 'cause L1's can be paid by the country their from, they pay ZERO US taxes.

4 posted on 06/10/2003 10:55:19 AM PDT by Drango (A liberal's compassion is limited only by the size of someone else's wallet.)
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To: Rodsomnia
I'm disappointed at Schlafly's just rehashing a pile of factoids without any analysis. News outlets are paying her to think of something.
5 posted on 06/10/2003 11:00:37 AM PDT by Tax-chick (God bless President Bush and President Reagan.)
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To: Tax-chick
No offense Tax-chick, but I think you're alive to think for yourself. I don't need Ms. Schlafly's opinion(s) to come to my own conclusion.
6 posted on 06/10/2003 11:32:27 AM PDT by Archangelsk (The internet: slow TV for a slow death.)
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To: Tax-chick
If anyone here believes that a business grad from Bhopal can analyze the balance sheet of a US company just as well as a Harvard MBA, then I've got some gold mining stock to sell them.

But then again, there are many who call themselves conservatives and turn right around and raise taxes (tariffs), and bloat federal power to force me to buy from their cronies.

These so-called "America-firster's" slander US workers when they say that we can't compete with those elsewhere.  The facts are that Americans are the best educated and most productive in the world. Schlafly may think that her talents could be easily replaced by those of a journalist grad from say, the University of Havana, but the rest of us have a lot more confidence in the market value of our abilities.

7 posted on 06/10/2003 11:55:51 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: expat_panama
Whoa! All I said was that this column wasn't one of her best efforts. No opinion at all offered on the content,folks!
8 posted on 06/10/2003 2:13:01 PM PDT by Tax-chick (God bless President Bush and President Reagan.)
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To: Rodsomnia
So if we outsource every possible job in our "new economy" what does that leave us with?

Lawyers, Judges, Politicians, and fast food restaurant workers...

9 posted on 06/10/2003 2:16:19 PM PDT by Im Your Huckleberry
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To: Archangelsk
I don't need Ms. Schlafly's opinion(s) to come to my own conclusion.

Why read her column, then? Almost all this content came from other sources, anyway.

10 posted on 06/10/2003 2:17:35 PM PDT by Tax-chick (God bless President Bush and President Reagan.)
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To: expat_panama
These so-called "America-firster's" slander US workers when they say that we can't compete with those elsewhere.

Who says an American can't get by on $12k per year?

11 posted on 06/10/2003 2:44:00 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Rodsomnia
Morgan Stanley plans to experiment with hiring stock analysts in India
What goes for "stock analyst" today is nothing more than "Are they mentioned in the WSJ today?" Plus all the big firms have major conflicts of interest covering stocks. I'll trust a used car salesman before I trust a major Wall Street firm's stock analysis.
The independant research firms will get a lot of business out of this as everyone's been burned by WS recommendations.

To add to this, Wall Street is looking for a new crop of suckers to buy their wares. They have to setup shop in India as money is flowing into there and they need some goodwill in the country. I give it 3 years before there's a major scandal of them scamming money.
12 posted on 06/11/2003 1:01:21 PM PDT by lelio
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To: Willie Green; Wolfie; ex-snook; Cacophonous; Poohbah; Jhoffa_; FITZ; arete; FreedomPoster; ...
Not only is the claim made by many tech companies that the United States suffers a shortage of computer programmers and engineers a fraud, but so is the claim that the aliens they import have specialized knowledge that is needed to retain the tech industry's competitive edge.

If the process continues for longer this claim might become true as the expertise will shift to the foreigners.

13 posted on 06/12/2003 4:45:12 AM PDT by A. Pole
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To: expat_panama
Well one of the big factors involved in the outsourcing to India is that the US government subsidizes the offshore projects. ...Overseas Private Investment Corporation, a U.S. government agency that helps American businesses invest overseas and encourages economic development in emerging markets, to provide loans of up to $250 million per project.. I am an America firster who wants the immigration laws enforced so we are not importing H1B and L1 foreign guest workers specifically to increase the American unemployement numbers and who thinks that if producing stuff outsde the USA and importing the products to the USA is such a wonderful idea why does it need tazpayer funding?

No, I do not say the US worker can not compete in a free market but I do say the current market is a rigged game with the American taxpayer hit on to subsidize shipping jobs offshore. reference article for above quote is at Here.

14 posted on 06/12/2003 4:56:21 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: A. Pole
If the process continues for longer this claim might become true as the expertise will shift to the foreigners.

You are quite correct in this and everyone should remember our military IT was built on a broad base of Civilian IT. China is becoming a major player in IT outsourcing because they are cheaper than India. china has realized the critical military nature of IT and is devoted to catching up in that field before even worrying about things like ships and palnes and tanks. they analyzed teh US performance in the Iraq war and have reached the conclusion that greatest US edge our military has is out IT so needless to say government polices of teh Clinton Administration are designed to destroy the infrastructure suport for our American advantage.

15 posted on 06/12/2003 5:06:11 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Rodsomnia
A graduate of the Indian Institutes of Technology with a master's in business administration can be hired for $12,000. Compare that to the average starting salary or $102,338 for a Harvard Business School graduate.

Something doesn't ring true in this comparison. If the Indian MBA is doing the same work as the Harvard grad then how can the Harvard grad ask for the $102K and who would be foolish enough to pay it? Doesn't the law of supply and demand apply to the MBAs or could it be they don't think it applies to them and that they are "entitled" to such high starting salaries? Seems as though they have a union mentality!

16 posted on 06/12/2003 5:17:37 AM PDT by varon
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To: A. Pole
No doubt. We might as well ship our military making complexes offshore.
17 posted on 06/12/2003 5:26:35 AM PDT by KCmark (I am NOT a partisan.)
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To: Rodsomnia
As one executive, who has no shame about replacing U.S. citizens with foreigners, said, "If it can be done by sitting at a desk in front of a computer, then it can be done abroad."

Which is exactly why I'm getting the h*ll out of IT after 15 years. My income will suffer but at least I'll be working.

18 posted on 06/12/2003 5:29:22 AM PDT by YankeeReb
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To: varon
Something doesn't ring true in this comparison.

That's because it isn't true.  Every few months the Economist magazine runs a new article about some professor who 'discovers' once again that American workers are more productive than those of other countries.  The Japanese may work longer hours, but the Americans work a lot smarter.  When you go to the third world the problems are even more sever.

Those that are hiring have found out that the American Harvard MBA simply does ten times as much work as the Indian.  I've hired construction workers internationally for three decades and have always found that the guys I've hired for $7 per day were worth every penny of it.  

19 posted on 06/12/2003 6:35:23 AM PDT by expat_panama
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To: YankeeReb
As one executive, who has no shame about replacing U.S. citizens with foreigners, said, "If it can be done by sitting at a desk in front of a computer, then it can be done abroad."

It can certainly be done anywhere but if you need a giovernment handout to make it economically feasable to do it abroad then it is time to stop the government handouts that are harming America. Clearly anyone can do anything but this shipping jobs offshore is dependent upon government financing to get the job done and we had best stop before it is no longer dependant upon the government dole and it comes back to destroy us.

20 posted on 06/12/2003 6:42:11 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: YankeeReb
Join the rest of us that got out with help!
21 posted on 06/12/2003 6:44:36 AM PDT by Afronaut
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To: varon
Something doesn't ring true in this comparison. If the Indian MBA is doing the same work as the Harvard grad then how can the Harvard grad ask for the $102K and who would be foolish enough to pay it? Doesn't the law of supply and demand apply to the MBAs or could it be they don't think it applies to them and that they are "entitled" to such high starting salaries? Seems as though they have a union mentality!

The union mentality seems to run through those who talk about our trade system being jsut fine as it is. They defend government subsidies, violating immigration law and welfare for those who make the decisions to dend investment overseas. I generally dislike tarriffs but if the government is handing out a subsidized loan to make the costs of imports lower (and subsidized insurance) and those imports put Americans out of work then is this not almost teh absolute reverse of a tarriff. surely a revue tarriff for those goods built in factories overseas to balance off the subsidy and reimburse the people who were harmed would not be a restraint on trade would it. it would connform to the Free Market prInciples would it not? Not advocating merely thinking.

22 posted on 06/12/2003 6:48:53 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: varon
Something doesn't ring true in this comparison. If the Indian MBA is doing the same work as the Harvard grad then how can the Harvard grad ask for the $102K and who would be foolish enough to pay it? Doesn't the law of supply and demand apply to the MBAs or could it be they don't think it applies to them and that they are "entitled" to such high starting salaries? Seems as though they have a union mentality!

You can rent a nice apartment on India'a west coast for $50 a month and hire a domestic to do your daily cooking and cleaning for another $25 a month. It has nothing to do with living standard demands, and everything to do with cost of living. In other words, the Indian MBA demands the same standard of living as the Harvard MBA, but it is available in India at 1/10 the price.

23 posted on 06/12/2003 6:51:21 AM PDT by Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
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To: Orbiting_Rosie's_Head
It is only available at that price because the Idian Rupee is subject to currency controls and the the Outsourcing to India gets an american government subsidy in teh form of a low intertest loan and government subsidized insurance.
24 posted on 06/12/2003 7:12:02 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Rodsomnia
If this trend continues politicians will be on the block as well and America will be a colony, probably a globalists wet dream.
25 posted on 06/12/2003 7:57:56 AM PDT by junta
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To: expat_panama
Boy!, are you ever right about that.

When I was in Japan, visiting my son,I kept seeing scads of business people at stores shopping during the middle of the day. The driving ranges were full (They close at 5:oo PM) and their parking lots were full of service vehicles. When I asked my son where they all came from, he said they were goofing off on the same schedule as the boss. Then they would "work" till 10 PM to show how dedicated they were.

I have consulted in plants in Central America, Phillipines, Haiti and Vietnam.(American companies)On average, these companies pay only 4 to 9% of American wages and still make only marginally more (in some cases actually less) than they do at domestic plants.

As for Indian programming, we poured $60,000 down that hole before we called it quits, and considered ourselves lucky.
26 posted on 06/12/2003 8:07:33 AM PDT by Farnham (In theory, theory and practice are the same. In practice, they are not.)
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To: harpseal
Exactly right and I would add that many of these same companies farming out jobs overseas probably receive fedgov contracts to augment their commercial revenues. If true, this means we have a scenario where our tax $ flow to companies who intend to eliminate American workers wherever possible and use fedgov subsidies to move those same jobs to third world countries.....I can hear the music from the old Looney Tune cartoons now!
27 posted on 06/12/2003 8:24:56 AM PDT by american spirit (ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION = NATIONAL SUICIDE)
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To: Farnham
As for Indian programming, we poured $60,000 down that hole before we called it quits, and considered ourselves lucky.

sounds like the managers at your company have some brains.

28 posted on 06/12/2003 8:39:43 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: american spirit
Among the companies rushing to farm jobs overseas:
Boeing, Pratt and Whitney, General Dynamics, Ford, Citigroup, General Electric, Loral,and many many others. gee I would be willing to bet a least a couple of those I mentioned have government contracts for defense. It seems Boeing either has just completed or is completeing a new manufacturing plant for Commercial aircraft in China. Pratt & Whitney engines and GE jet engines will be made in China. Now could it ever be that these newest most modern facilities subsidized by the US government could ever be turned against America? According to the Free Traitors that could never happen becuase the Chinese government would never ever do something like that besides if they were ever nationalized the US treasury would pay off Boeing et al for the loss of their investment.

Lenin said capitalists would sell Communists the rope to hang them with obviously Lennin did not understand the capitalists would give teh communists the rope freely because they thought they could get the money from someone else.

29 posted on 06/12/2003 8:47:17 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: Im Your Huckleberry
Lawyers, Judges, Politicians, and fast food restaurant workers...

Well there's a healthy society for you! And so willing to stand up for the rights of the citizen to liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Utopia.
30 posted on 06/12/2003 9:00:25 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: hedgetrimmer
Who is going to be able to afford those fast food burgers? As to the lawyers there will not be as many because the grunt legal research can also be outsourced offshore.
31 posted on 06/12/2003 9:15:55 AM PDT by harpseal (Stay well - Stay safe - Stay armed - Yorktown)
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To: harpseal
OPIC Mission Statement

“to mobilize and facilitate the participation of United
States private capital and skills in the economic and social development of less developed countries and areas, and countries in transition from nonmarket to market economies, thereby complementing the development assistance objectives of the United States.”

Government direction of private capital the less fortunate..hmm, that seems kind of familiar. Kind of like "From each(American taxpayer) according to his ability,
To each( third world country) according to his need "

I can imagine Mr. Marx is grinning from ear to ear right now.
32 posted on 06/12/2003 9:17:58 AM PDT by hedgetrimmer
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To: A. Pole
If the process continues for longer this claim might become true as the expertise will shift to the foreigners.

It doesnt take very long. The companies around here, dont like it when they see an american resume showing the person out of work the past 6 months to a year. They will pass up your resume for someone who has "recent " work experience.

33 posted on 06/13/2003 6:14:18 AM PDT by waterstraat
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To: Rodsomnia
H-1B workers are paid equal to or higher wages than US Workers because their wages are literally dictated and enforced by the Department of Labor, which require high salaries in order to dissuade the displacement of American workers. It is therefore more expensive to pay for an Indian H-1B than it is to pay an American worker, because with an American worker, you can pay them whatever you want, as long as it is above minimum wage.

Go here for the Federally mandated wage library, wherein wages for foreign (H-1B and Green Card) workers are etched in stone, and as you can see, are generally higher than what most American citizen workers in this country get, for any type of job.

Before an H-1B can work here, the employer has to have a labor certification approved first, and compliance with the DOL wage standards are mandatory. Sorry to burst your bubble.

34 posted on 06/29/2003 5:17:49 PM PDT by MACK_DADDY
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To: MACK_DADDY
I don't know what planet your from but I live in CA. HB1 workers and the low wage green card workers are the lowest paid in their industry. Forget about some bullshit federal website get a reality check. The technical people often find themselves locked into contracts signed in India or China for which their American co-workers make 10-30k more per year for the same performance in the very same cities and ther're not allow to renegotiate fair market prices.


35 posted on 06/30/2003 9:31:56 AM PDT by Rodsomnia
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To: MACK_DADDY
The laws are not being upheld. The reality is that the foreign guest worker is paid 1/2 to 1/3 whatever the replaced American was being paid. This has been reported by a variety of news agencies and organizations. Furthermore, the visa worker is fearful of being sent back home. He stays quiet and does not say a word about federally mandated anything.
36 posted on 06/30/2003 9:57:59 AM PDT by LibertyAndJusticeForAll
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