U.S. says helicopter apparently shot down in Iraq

MSNBC ^ | 6/12/2003 | Reuters

[yonif]

An AH-64 Apache helicopter was apparently shot down by hostile fire on Thursday in western Iraq, but the crew escaped unharmed, U.S. Central Command said in a statement.

''Coalition ground forces were able to recover the uninjured two-member crew almost immediately and secure the crash site,'' the statement said.

[MEG33]

I heard more apaches were involved in an attack.No deaths is good news.

[IonInsights]

It's good to know our boys are busy killing the bad guys.

[chachacha]

It's good to know our boys are busy killing the bad guys.

It's bad that our boys are still dying daily.

The question is.

Why are the Iraq's who are so glad to be free, not killing the bad guys? When are they going to start killing the bad guys? I think it's time for some answers to some fundamental questions.

[jriemer]

Why are the Iraq's who are so glad to be free, not killing the bad guys? When are they going to start killing the bad guys? I think it's time for some answers to some fundamental questions.

The Iraqi people still fear the former regime its roach-like surivors more than they "like" their American liberators. As long the local calculus is still, "Saddam's goons can kill / harm me, everyone I love, and / or take everything I have" - the new administration will not make much head way de-Baathifing Iraq. The costs of being seen as an accomplice is too great.

In some areas, the sense of fear has been stricken from the population and there is a great deal of co-operation between the Iraqi people and Allied forces. In these areas with local help, we are finding the mass graves, finding the leads pointing towards WMD, rebuilding the Iraqi infrastructure and making the region something more than an Arab sand-pit.

The organized fighting on the field of battle is effectively over. Now the the Allies are fighting for the hearts and minds of the Iraqi people. That will be the greater challenge.

[judicial meanz]

This is very noteworthy for two reasons.

Reason one is its not very easy to shoot down an AH-64.They are equipped to deal with almost any AA threat. It takes a lot of work and know how to defeat their technology.

Farmer Jones isnt going to be able to do it with a 100 year old rifle. I'm betting it was a SA-7 or SA-14 fired from a very close range so the crew didnt have time to countermeasure it before it it.

Reason two is the resistance to our forces is beginning to gel now, and it appears this is going to be a moderate to long term guerilla war, using Islamic resistance principles (ala mujahedin) . Not a day passes one of our guys isnt killed or aircraft are not fired on.

This is the beginning of a guerilla phase, with the ideal of protracting the war and its losses on us just like the Syrians and their minions did in Lebanon to Israel.

The common linkage is the Sunni Mulims and the Baath party in Syruia as well as the Iranian inspired resistance fighters that filtered in during the conflict. Their plan is coming together now. Watch for more of this.

Good catch Yoni

[Blood of Tyrants]

Farmer Jones isnt going to be able to do it with a 100 year old rifle.

The Apache shot down in the first week of the war had virtually no visible damage. If you hit the rotor head and sever or jam a link, it will go down.

Interesting side note: The Army later claimed that the Apache had been destroyed by aircraft yet it showed up on the back of a flatbed in downtown Baghdad as "proof" that the Iraqis were defeating the US. Hmmmm....

[mystery-ak]

One good shot to the tail rotor will bring any chopper down....

[judicial meanz]

The "Magic BB" is something I left out..LOL

I'm betting on this being a RPG to the rotor or an SA-7 or 14 attack using Afghan type tactics.The lack of detail in the Pentago press release tells me something unusual happened.

Of course, us infantry grunts are not that great at aerial loss reconstruction..LOL

[SJSAMPLE]

Yep, but it has to be a VERY GOOD shot. The vulnerable section of the tail rotor is a sweet spot, to be sure, but it's a very small sweet spot.

I hope this doesn't play into the hands of those (like the idiot Hackworth) who think the Apache is fundamentally flawed because it can't handle simultaneous, repeated attacks from multiple small arms systems. They forget that the Apache was designed as an Anti-Tank weapons and as such, is still the heaviest armored helicopter in the world. As you said, any helicopter is vulnerable is key ways.

[mystery-ak]

Exactly, a very good or lucky shot, but it can and has been done.....so far my hubby's Co(last I heard) has only taken small arms fire on their Chinooks....but, I still worry about that *lucky* shot.

[PatrioticAmerican]

This is like when the Soviet Union took A'stan. They took it in days and were picked off during the following months.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Hey, a Huey was knocked down by a spear in Viet Nam. What makes a lucky shot with an 8mm Mauser any less likely? Yes, I know about milspecs and redundant systems but who would have though that the space shuttle could have been destroyed by a piece of foam causing a dime sized hole in the insulation?

[judicial meanz]

You are absolutely right. It has in the past, and can happen again. We called it the "magic BB".


WTF?...A Huey knocked down with a spear?....thats a story for the books. I would love to hear that one!

[Blood of Tyrants]

P.S. IIRC, the tail rotor is a weak point and I also believe that it was some sort of explosive devise that probably brought it down. If it was an RPG, it was a lucky shot as they are so inaccurate.

[Blood of Tyrants]

I can't remember the entire story but it seems that the Huey had landed to pick up or drop off troops and a dink with a spear hit it in the rotor head and caused it to crash. I'll try to find it.

[RJCogburn]

This and the sporadic deaths of our soldiers...is this the 'quagmire'?

[judicial meanz]

Thats what I see unfolding in Iraq. Take it on days, fight it for years. Make it bloody enough to run us out forever ( in their minds). I base that on some facts that have been trickling out of the press over the past couple of months

I've been looking for an article I read just before the war, where Iran had about 64,000 trained Shi'ite guerillas poised to cross the border and institute guerilla warfare in Iraq. Their goal was to make the after war period a living hell for America, and foment an Islamic republic in Iraq by forming partnerships with the local Shi'ites.

This is part of it:

Iran denies US charges of interference in Iraq March 30 2003

Tehran: Iran today strongly denied charges by US Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld that it was interfering with the US-led war effort in neighbouring Iraq.

"We have stressed our policy of active neutrality time and again since before the war began," government spokesman Abdullah Ramezanzadeh told AFP.

Yesterday Rumsfeld accused Tehran of allowing hundreds of Iran-based fighters of Iraq's Shi'ite Muslim opposition to cross the border in defiance of US calls for them to stay out of the conflict.

"To the extent that they interfere with (US commander) General (Tommy) Franks's activity, they would have to be considered combatants," he said.

"We will hold the Iranian government responsible for their actions and will view that activity inside Iraq as unhelpful."

"The Badr Corps is trained, equipped and directed by Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard and we will hold the Iranian government responsible for their actions and will view Badr Corps activity inside Iraq as unhelpful," said Rumsfeld.

The Badr Brigade is the armed wing of Supreme Assembly of Islamic Revolution of Iraq (SAIRI), Iraq's Iranian-backed Shi'ite Muslim opposition.

But Ramezanzadeh insisted today that "the Islamic Revolutionary Guards have no military connection with the Badr Brigade and the Supreme Assembly of Islamic Revolution of Iraq".

Foreign diplomats in Tehran say the brigade numbers between 10,000 and 15,000.

A leading member of SAIRI, Mohsen Hakim, also denied today that the military arm of his party had any connections with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.

"The Badr Brigade is 100 per cent Iraqi," he said.,

Iran may profess neutrality in the Iraq conflict, but its supreme leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, has denounced what he calls the new US "Hitlerism".

Iranian leaders are worried by the precedent the US-led campaign on Iraq might set and have repeatedly called on the United Nations to resolve the crisis.

Iran is on President George W Bush's "axis of evil" list with Iraq and North Korea.

Both Syria and Iran are on a US list of alleged terrorist-sponsoring nations.

AFP

I also found a few quotes logged on GlobalSecurity.org.

The Iraqi people, not a world power, should determine Iraq's destiny. At the same time, Iran will not stand idle before such instability because, if a country decides to overthrow another country's government, this will create a norm." — Hamid Reza Asefi, Foreign Ministry spokesman

"If aggression against one country becomes a habit, no government or country will be spared." President Khatami.

Tehran considers the "American regime as an arrogant power, seeking a unipolar world, to which we seriously object. The United States is weak and extremely vulnerable today. US grandeur can be broken, and if this takes place, it will be a service rendered to mankind and even the American people. Our resistance against US hegemony is based on our Islamic beliefs, since in Islam, resistance against injustice is considered a value." President Khatami.

Though it has refused the presence of U.S. troops on its territory, Iran is nevertheless allowing Shiite rebels to be based inside its territory

We'll see how the game unfolds. But for now, it looks like some other players may be entering the scenes other than disaffected Iraqi Baathists and Fedayeen.

[judicial meanz]

Just damn...LOL

The mental image of loincloth clad chuck tossing a spear and downing a Huey is making me laugh so hard my eyes are watering..LOL

Seriously though, I imagine it wasnt much of a joke to the unlucky crew.

[Blood of Tyrants]

Seems it wasn't a Huey, it was an H-21 Shawnee, or "the Flying Banana" but I can find no definite answer whether it was true or a rumor.

Click here.