Rabbis said to call for 'transfer' of Arabs

Jerusalem Post ^ | Jun. 15, 2003 | ABIGAIL RADOSZKOWICZ

[yonif]

Pointing out that Palestinians use the language of religion to promote their jihad against the Jewish state rather than the language of Aqaba, Rabbi Dov Lior, the chairman of the Council of Rabbis of Judea, Samaria, and the Gaza Strip, quoted traditional Jewish sources in his call on Arab countries last Thursday to award the "right of return" to Palestinian Arabs.

Radio stations and newspapers over the weekend reported Lior's statement as a call for the "transfer" of Arabs. A source closed to the council explained that Lior's stance was based on Jewish law, which holds that those who do not observe the Noahide laws could not dwell in the Holy Land. Among the Noahide laws is prohibition against bloodshed, and Arabs who either support bloodshed, or fail to denounce it, could not be permitted to dwell in the land.

The statement referred to biblical sources to the effect that only those gentiles who accept Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel are permitted to dwell in it, quoting the verse, "And you will settle the land and no one will terrify you."

The council source emphasized that, while the statement was on the ideological and not operative level, it addressed the root religious reason of why the two peoples could not live in the same parcel of land.

Voluntary transfer has been the platform of the Moledet Party, founded by assassinated minister Rehavam Ze'evi.

The official spokesman of the council, Rabbi Daniel Shilo of Kedumim, was quoted by the press as saying that the statement was Lior's alone. Rabbi Nachum Berkowitz of Ma'ale Adumim, another of the seven rabbis who make up the council, said he had not been informed of the statement before it was issued.

Lior, a child Holocaust survivor, is among the foremost rabbinical authorities of the national religious world.

Rabbi Yuval Sherlo, head of the Petah Tikva hesder yeshiva, said that while there is no argument that those who commit terrorism do not have the right to live here, "one has to be very careful of definition. One can't describe all the Palestinians living in Israel as terrorist supporters. That's like a license to kill them, because even President Bush has said that those who support terrorism don't have the right to exist."

[yonif]

FYI

The statement referred to biblical sources to the effect that only those gentiles who accept Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel are permitted to dwell in it, quoting the verse, "And you will settle the land and no one will terrify you."

[carton253]

Yes, but there were conditions to the land. Is Israel living up to those conditions?

This is by no means a slam on Israel. But, there are many who come to these threads and post the Bible as if it is the final arbitrator of the issue.

I believe that the Bible is the final arbitrator, but the Sinai Covenant had conditions to the land. Conditions that Israel had to carry out or be removed from the land. The Book of Judges alone shows the consequences of not obeying the covenant. Then of course, the Assyrian captivity, the Babylonian captivity, and the dispersions under the Romans. Were they the judgement of God... or were they just political consquences to some very bad political treaties and decisions? I know answers will differ...

Perhaps Israel is not at peace because she has failed to live up to those conditions.... still.

Then, again, perhaps Israel is not a peace because the Arabs will never accept a Jewish state in the midst of holy Muslim land?

Then, again, perhaps Israel is not a peace because in the last 10 years, Israel hasn't truly decided which course of action she wants to follow. From Rabin to Peres to Netanyahu to Barak to Sharon. Lot's of differing opinions on just how and what Israel will do for peace and what Israel will give and take back.

[per loin]

All Arabs should be given the right of return. To their homeland in Arabia.

[willowpar]

A source closed to the council explained that Lior's stance was based on Jewish law, which holds that those who do not observe the Noahide laws could not dwell in the Holy Land.

Apparently this would exclude Christians from living in the Holy Land as well. The first of the seven Noahide laws is not to commit idolatry, which has been interpreted as follows:

While the Christians do generally accept the Hebrew Bible as truly from God, many of them (those who accept the so-called divinity of Jesus) are idolaters according to the Torah, punishable by death, and certainly will not enjoy the World to Come. But it is not just being a member of a denomination in which the majority are believers in the Trinity that is idolatry, but personal idolatrous practice, whatever the individual's affiliation.

http://www.mechon-mamre.org/jewfaq/gentiles.htm

[sheik yerbouty]

Agreed. The U.S. in its early days cast the Tories out to Al Qanada.

[yonif]

I am not sure, but they said this,

"The statement referred to biblical sources to the effect that only those gentiles who accept Jewish sovereignty in the Land of Israel are permitted to dwell in it, quoting the verse, "And you will settle the land and no one will terrify you."

[kkindt]

WHy doesn't Irsael, the US and other willing nations arrange a place where all the so called Palestians can have a homeland but BUY this home land for them somewhere in a similar climate in some nation far away from Israel and then transport all of these so called Palestians to a Palestine a few thousand miles away. There must be a nation somewhere that given enough money would be willing to sell the small amount of land necessary to be equivalent in terms of square miles. If this place could be prepared for Palestinians and their transportation was arranged and homes were built there for them better than the homes they now have AND then those willing who wanted to move there could do so and those not willing to do so could be moved to refuge camps until they were willing to do so - that would solve the problem. THere is NO way that Israel will be at peace until the millions of these anti-Jewish people are moved away - far away. I am not saying hurt them or abuse them or put them in a terrible place but make for them a homeland some where far far away from Israel. They want Jerusalem as their capital? BUILD THEM a new Jerusalem - move the Mosque they have build on the temple mount that place so the Jews can rebuild their Temple where it was before the Palestians ever came to that place. Muslims idolize PLACES on the earth but I wonder if the new place they were offered was BETTER and their new homes were BETTER far better than what they have ever enjoyed that millions of them wouldn't want to move and get away from the Jews they hate so much.

[yonif]

80% of Jordanians consider themselves Palestinian. The Queen of Jordan is Palestinian. Yet they do not want to absorb the refugees.

[willowpar]

Rabbi Dov Lior is an extremist kook who has praised the mass murderer Baruch Goldstein, among other questionable things.

[Willie Green]

If this place could be prepared for Palestinians and their transportation was arranged and homes were built there for them better than the homes they now have AND then those willing who wanted to move there could do so and those not willing to do so could be moved to refuge camps until they were willing to do so - that would solve the problem.

Seems to me that this type of international meddling and nation-building is what started the trouble in the Middle East to begin with. No matter where you go to buy the land, there's always going to be an indigenous population that's deeply resentful of a massive influx of foreigners taking over their territory. Even if a legitimate government sold these rights, it would be viewed as a betrayal by the local population. You wouldn't be solving any problem, just recreating the hostile, tribal conditions of the Middle East in another location.

[Destro]

Wow a thoughtfl post on Isreal...As rare as a Red Heifer!

[per loin]

Yes. You are right about causing troubles in whatever location they are sent to. Thus it makes sense returning them to Arabia.

[Willie Green]

Thus it makes sense returning them to Arabia.

I have no problem with the deportation of illegal immigrants.
What do you propose for those Arabs who are native to Israeli territory?

[johnb838]

Then, again, perhaps Israel is not a peace because the Arabs will never accept a Jewish state in the midst of holy Muslim land?

It's only 'holy' because it belonged to somebody else and they wanted it. Arabs are the Ali-Babas and murderers.

[carton253]

That may be true... but that doesn't change the fact that the Arabs believe that land was ripped away from them by European guilt over the Holocaust... and it doesn't change the fact that they believe it is a part of greater Syria, and they want it back.

I'm not saying I agree with this assessment, but I am saying that the Arabs believe this as fervently as I believe that Israel has a right to exist in secure borders in peace.

[johnb838]

Yeah, maybe all my life I've been too hard on the poor arabs. I mean, you're right! They had the land, they supported the Nazis, they lost the war, they lost the land. Then they went to war against baby Israel and they lost some more land. Then they went to war with Israel again and they lost some more land. Then in 1973 they tried it again and lost again. So they decide terror works much better (see Munich 1972) and become terrorists.

They can go screw. They want Israel let's see them take it on the battlefield not like a bunch of panty-waist skulkers attacking the defenseless and hiding behind their women's skirts. I don't believe it's because they feel the land was stolen. I think they just like to kill jews.

[carton253]

If that's how you feel...

[thoughtomator]

The combination of the two irreconcilible and immovable beliefs makes war necessary. Let there be a brief and bloody war where all those on the losing side who will not surrender their belief surrender their lives. Then we won't have to watch future generations continue to make the same mistakes that the current one, and previous two, made.

[carton253]

I would think you are right but for one reason. If Israel goes ahead and declares war, she will have to occupy Tehran, Cairo, Riyadh, Tripoli, Beruit, and Damascus for one simple reason. This isn't an Palestinian/Israeli problem. This is an Arab/Israeli problem. Israel's foes aren't just Hamas and Islamic Jihad.

Once Israel wins the war, does that automatically mean peace. They have won wars before. In 1949, 1956, 1967, 1973, and 1982. Peace has not been the aftermath. She may have won the "war" but the battle is still engaged...