Church tosses defiant minister: He refused to stop performing gay marriages

The Cincinnati Enquirer ^ | Tuesday, June 17, 2003 | Andrea Uhde

[HatSteel]

Kyla Ford and Eryn Robinson, both 7 and of Anderson Township, hold a sign in support of Rev. Stephen Van Kuiken at Lakeside Presbyterian Church Monday.

(Mike Simons photo)
| ZOOM |

FORT MITCHELL - The Rev. Stephen Van Kuiken was formally renounced by the Presbytery of Cincinnati on Monday for continuing to perform same-sex marriages.

The action, taken by a voting body made up of minister members and elder commissioners in the Presbytery, means the pastor of the Mount Auburn Presbyterian Church can no longer serve as a minister and loses his church membership.

The vote was 119-45, with four voters abstaining.

"I'm sad, and I'm disappointed," Van Kuiken said after the vote. "This is a sad day. This is an issue that is going to continue to stay at the surface of the Presbyterian Church."

Van Kuiken was unsure of his next action. He said he will take some time to re-evaluate what he will do. He is considering filing a complaint with the Synod of the Presbyterian Church USA, claiming his due process rights were violated because he had an appeal pending on an earlier rebuke.

"It's important for me to be true to myself and be true to what my beliefs are about God," he said.

Van Kuiken's case has been closely watched across the country as Presbyterians - who also ban gay clergy - and other faiths continue to debate the roles of gays and lesbians in the church.

In the denomination's first ecclesiastical trial on the issue, Van Kuiken was found guilty in April of marrying gays and lesbians. He was given a public rebuke and told not to do it again. He wed two women on May 17.

The voting body met at the Lakeside Presbyterian Church in Fort Mitchell after a vigil supporting Van Kuiken.

"I just think it was unavoidable," said Howard Smith, one of the voters in favor of the renunciation. "His actions made the action necessary by the Presbytery unless they want to totally disregard the (church) constitution."

A number of members of Mount Auburn Presbyterian attended Monday's vote and the vigil.

"I think it's a travesty what they're doing," said Terrell Lackey. "Being a gay man and a black man, too, I can't believe the world is still the way it is. Cincinnati is sad."

About one-third of the 280 members of the Mount Auburn church are gay.

This is the first time the Presbytery of Cincinnati has removed a minister for performing same-sex marriages, and possibly the first case in any Presbytery nationwide.

Presbyteries don't have to report such cases to the Presbyterian Church USA, but the organization isn't aware of others, said Laurie Griffith, manager of judicial process and social witness at the Presbyterian Church USA in Louisville.

Van Kuiken's rebuke in April was the lightest of possible punishments.

He also faces accusations, including blasphemy, from a California lawyer who filed the original complaints against him.

Van Kuiken could become a church member again, but he would have to restart the process if he wants to be a minister again, said the Rev. Melissa Bane Sevier, Presbytery moderator.

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E-mail auhde@enquirer.com

[HatSteel]

can no longer serve as a minister and loses his church membership.

I understand loss of ministerial credentials, but I thought anyone could be a member in this church. Guess not.

If one third of the members are gay, does that mean they'll be kicked out, too? I'm not presbyterian, so I don't know their rules.

[madprof98]

"It's important for me to be true to myself and be true to what my beliefs are about God," he said.

True to myself, eh? What could be more Presbyterian (USA style) than that? And as for "God," well, whatever your beliefs about that are . . .

[Gamecock]

Meanswhile, the Presbyterian Church in America reaffirms that marriage is between one man and one woman. This declaration is not made for church policy, but for a witness to the world on PCA standards.

The PCUSA finally made a stand on homosexuality....

[HatSteel]

US Presbyterian comes in different shapes and sizes, but I'm pretty much uninformed about mainline Presbyterianism.

At a minimum, I guess they believe in kicking this guy out. "God" is part of presbyterianism still, I think.....but I'm not sure He's a full member.

[HatSteel]

See my #6.

How many US denominations have "presbyterian" in their name? How many of them are over about 250,000 people?

[ohioWfan]

This is a sad day.

NO, this is a GREAT day!

This man has been defiant of everything Presbyterian doctrine, consistant with Scripture, stands for.

As a member of the Session of a strong, evangelical Presbyterian church in Ohio, which seeks to honor the Lord, and the truth of God's Word, I applaud this decision.

I believe that God is at work in the Presbyterian Church to bring it back to truth and holiness. Satan is still at work obviously, but there are many praying members of the PC USA who desire their denomination to once again uphold the truths of Scripture.

[ohioWfan]

Not so with the majority, madprof. The noisy minority get all the press.

[HatSteel]

Can you answer my questions at #7?

[HatSteel]

I've heard about them. I don't think that godhatesfags does justice to the nature of God.

[colorado tanker]

I understand loss of ministerial credentials, but I thought anyone could be a member in this church. Guess not.

Gays can be members. If the church said members must be free of sin, the pews would be empty. I would hope they would attend and grow in faith.

The reporter probably confused membership in the clergy with membership in the church. The church does not recognize gay marriage and this minister would not stop performing them.

The PCUSA also requires that ordained ministers be married or celebate singles; thus practicing gays may not be ordained.

[Gamecock]

7, probably 2

[Gamecock]

Yeah PCA churches are great. If you are a man. Women can't be ministers, elders or deacons.

Yup, we're the intolerant ones! (If you consider holding to Bible teaching is intolerant that is)

[ohioWfan]

The Presbyterian Church, USA is the largest, and the Prebyterian Church of America, next, I believe, both with over 250,000.

The Orthodox Presbyterian is fairly large, but I don't know how big.

I don't know a whole lot about the rest because I spent most of my life as a Baptist, and there are a zillion kinds of Baptists! :o)

[ohioWfan]

Some subject to debate about the role of women, Gamecock......even among equally dedicated evangelical Christians.

[DannyTN]

Congratulations Presbyterians

[Susannah]

The church is now 1/3 homosexual. Does that mean if a church gets a majority of homosexuals, knowingly or unknowingly, that the church could vote to allow same-sex marriages?

I know liberals who say there is NOTHING in the bible about same-sex couples.

[DoughtyOne]

If homosexuals push the issue of same sex marriage, I think it's going to backfire. People are sick and tired of having the homosexual agenda pushed on them. Society, their kids, church, nothing is sacred. "We're here, we're queer and we're in your face!" Well, maybe, don't be surprised if folks vote against you at every opportunity, because it's going to happen more frequently the more you push.

The minister should have stepped down rather than hijack the church. As an employee or clergy member of the church, he must abide by it's stated beliefs. If he thinks it is wrong, he should disassociate with it on moral grounds. Providing this is about moral as he states.

[Gamecock]

7To fast on my keyboard, sorry.

There's the ARPs, Bible, Evangelical, Free, PCA, PCUSA, Orthodox, Reformed Presbyterian Church in North American, Cumberland, and I can't think of any more....

Still think there are 2 over 250,000.

[Gamecock]

FYI: The Presbyterian Church in America is a representative government. Women have the same right to elect deacons and elders as men. Granted women can't serve as such. The New Testament clearly identifies men as preachers and elders. If you are not familiar enough with scripture to know that, I'm not going to provide proofs, you need to read the books written by Paul.

[HatSteel]

What is an ARP?

[HatSteel]

I don't think there is even one new testament example of a woman elder or a woman apostle.

[Gamecock]

Some subject to debate about the role of women, Gamecock......even among equally dedicated evangelical Christians

I know that. Our friend was making a sarcastic attack against the PCA (see #8), I wasn't slamming other evangelicals, just defending PCA doctrine to ianincali....

[Gamecock]

Associate Reformed Presbyterian (sorry)

Mostly found in the South.

[dighton]

"Jesus & Steve" -- I feel sick. May God protect these children from the "adult" who dreamt that up.

[ohioWfan]

Gotcha. :o)

(And I caught the sarcasm).

[MississippiMan]

The roles for women and men are different. You'd have a hard time finding a Christian marriage, following the Bible, where the woman thought she had to be "subservient."

Not sure what kind of "backwood" church you're talking about, but the Bible is where conditions for deacons and such are laid out. If you have a problem with it, your problem is with God, not man.

1 Timothy 3:2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;

Difference in roles does not imply that one is lesser.

MM

[ohioWfan]

Paul lists many women as co-workers in various New Testament churches in his epistles.

That the early church had any women in leadership roles was absolutely revolutionary for the time and the culture, and it was because of Jesus' example and treatment of women as equals.

Galations 3:28....."There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

[ohioWfan]

As a Christian wife of a man who follows Biblical teaching on how to be a Christian husband.......head of our home, but subservient to Christ, and loving and respecting me as Christ loves the Church...... I would say that it is not at all difficult to submit to a man who is submitting to Jesus, even when you're not particularly submissive by nature. :o)

[Zipporah]

It's too bad all presbyterian churches aren't cut from the same cloth as Coral Ridge Ministries led by Dr. James Kennedy.. http://www.coralridge.org/

[RnMomof7]

It's too bad all presbyterian churches aren't cut from the same cloth as Coral Ridge Ministries led by Dr. James Kennedy..

Awesome Man od God

[Zipporah]

Here are a list of some booklets on homosexuality from Coral Ridge written by Dr. Kennedy.. and HE is awesome.. wonderful ministry..

http://www.coralridge.org/CRMResCtrdetail.asp?cat=booklet&pc=3ABD

[WayneM]

As a deacon in a Presbyterian church I would like to correct a few misconceptions.

First - the word Presbyterian refers to the form of church government. It is from the Presbyterian church that the government of the USA was modeled. The church leaders are elected from the bottom level (local congregation) to the top (General assembly delegates and moderator).

Because every member has a real vote that carries - in diluted form - all the way to the top, there can be expected to be some of what many of us consider to be lunacy, wrong thinking, and unbiblical positions. There is also a belief that God will have the ultimate say.

My church is a conservative, Bible-believing and teaching congregation. But even if it starts to lean in the other direction, it is my obligation to stick around and try to correct it, rather than cut and run. We do our best to preserve and protect God's institutions, even under popular pressure.

May all Christians pray that God's will and message be preserved in one of His long-standing institutions.

[squirt]

AMEN

[HatSteel]

Also there is the verse about an elder being the "husband of one wife."

It is unlikely that Jesus and Paul were afraid to appoint women to leadership positions. Neither of them strike me as being fearful of the opinions of others. If they didn't appoint women, then they didn't do so because they didn't want to do so.

At the same time, I agree that Jesus and Paul had an enlightened view of women for that era. But that is the era's fault for debasing women.

[ohioWfan]

Excellent post! Thank you!

[MississippiMan]

Exactly, O. My wife is about as unsubmissive as they come by nature, but we both want to do what's RIGHT, not necessarily what our natural tendencies may be. Thus, she IS a submissive wife as that's defined in the Bible, but she'd laugh in anyone's face who thought she was "subservient."

mm

[ohioWfan]

"Husband of one wife," is not, to me, enough in and of itself to defend an absolutely-no-women-in-authority position.

There are churches which do not allow women to teach Jr High Sunday School classes because they think 13 year old boys are men, and women are Biblically mandated not to teach them......and there are churches that ordain women as complete equals in authority in the church.

I suspect the truth, as it usually is, is somewhere in between those two positions, and equally devout believers draw the line at different spots on the continuum. The danger comes when people ascribe the 'absolute' status to arguable positions that only belong to the essentials of Christian doctrine, i.e. the divinity of Christ, the cross, and the resurrection.

[bethelgrad]

He'll (God) "just have to restart the process..." to regain full membership.

[ohioWfan]

I like your wife! :o)

Your marriage sounds like ours.......it's wonderful, and it works!

(Maybe that's because it's the way God intended marriage to be......)

[ohioWfan]

Bethel, Minnesota grad??

[Chuckster]

"History fails to record a single precedent in which nations subject to moral decay have not passed into political and economic decline. There has been either a spiritual awakening to overcome the moral lapse, or a progressive deterioration leading to ultimate national disaster." --General Douglas MacArthur

Apparently, others are beginning to notice.

[HatSteel]

The point Ohio (Is that Ohio Wesleyan?) is that those who cite the "husband of one wife" verse are not ignorant bumpkins. They really do have a point, and those who discount their point because of theological liberal bias are only cheating themselves of the opportunity to think their way biblically and clearly through this issue.

Personally, I'm satisfied that there was a female order of deaconesses, but that there was no similar order of female elders.

The "no male or female" verse in Galatians can legitimately be limited to "God's acceptance" of anyone, no matter sex, race, economic condition.

[ohioWfan]

Well, my Baptist Dad went to Ohio Wesleyan, which is a Methodist school, but my family and I are now Presbyterian, and are hearing more of the Gospel in our present church than we heard for the past several years in our increasingly 'contemporary' Baptist church.

As to the role of women, our church is far from liberal and we have women who are elders. As I said before, prayerful, reasonable dedicated disciples of the Word come down at different points on the issue.

[HatSteel]

You might like your church. And I like mine which does the same thing.

But...female elders are arguably unbiblical. The argument against simply cannot be overcome. It can only be disagreed with on a patchwork-biblical basis.

[Protagoras]

The minister should have stepped down rather than hijack the church.

Which would defeat the whole purpose. That precise purpose is to hijack a major denomination in order to attempt to legitimize homosexuality and denigrate christianity. Most of these people are not christians in any logical sense of the word. They do not accept Christ as their lord and savior and they deny his divinity. They denounce scripture whenever it doesn't further their cause.

Many factors led them to choose the Presbyterian Church as their target. Too many to discuss here. Suffice it to say, if God wants this group of Christians to survive as a denomination, it will, and if other non-christians take it over completely it will also be his will. Trust him and wait and see. (which is not to say "let them do what they please unopposed")