[First Amendment]

In short, it's a global trend and, like it or not, the traditionalists have lost. This isn't a value judgment, it's simply dispassionate analysis. Many conservatives refuse to accept this fact. But refusing to acknowledge a fact doesn't make it any less real.

I haven't even read the thread yet and I am p***ed and more than a little sick to my stomach. If the US had this attitude towards Hitler (whine - he won some battles, let's wave the white flag and hope he doesn't put all of us in the ovens!) we'd be speaking German and world Jewry would be a memory.

What is this guy's personal viewpoint on homosexuality? He sees what he wants to see. Moral relativism at its best. Nauseating. He can give up if he likes. It's d***less wimps like him that are helping the homo cause.

[Antoninus]

In short, it's a global trend and, like it or not, the traditionalists have lost. This isn't a value judgment, it's simply dispassionate analysis. Many conservatives refuse to accept this fact. But refusing to acknowledge a fact doesn't make it any less real.

More like a "global fad." Don't count your chickens, Jonah....

[Ohioan]

The challenge for social conservatives, it seems to me, is to make the best of what they consider a bad situation. But that would require making some painful capitulations -intellectual, moral, philosophical and financial. It would also require gay activists to understand that they've won and that the best course of action for them would be magnanimity in victory. Unfortunately, this is all unlikely since both camps are in denial about how far gays have come.

I earlier denounced this essay, as an example of "whipped cur" Conservatism, and made the obvious points that we have all the sound arguments that we have ever had against the corruption of our Society, and that we will start to win, when we fully engage. As, stated, that is all perfectly obvious; however lost on some Conservatives, who seem beaten in their very souls.

But there is another point, which should also be made here, because Jonah Goldberg is not alone in the erroneous assumption, that underlies his defeatist attitude. There is a fundamental error here, common to those who pose as hisorians, but lack any perspective on the historical human drama: And that is this--a belief that social history moves in only one direction. Actually, social history--social values, especially on sexual themes--swing far more dramatically than do economic cycles. Even if the acceptance of homosexual claims was as widespread as Jonah asserts, there is no reason to believe that it will last very much longer, before the reaction sets in.

For an obvious example of my point, consider the Victorian era, which was a dramatic 180 degree reversal of the easy going Regency era, that extended through the actual reign of George IV and into that of William IV. The openly indulged sport--along with gambling, roadside fisticuffs and racing--was promiscuous seduction of any thing within reach. While that, for all its bad points, may not have been as repulsive as flaunting deviant behavior, it still triggered a reaction, which brought the most restrictive era, ever, in the Anglo-Saxon world. One suspects that what will be coming, fairly soon, may make Victorian England appear to be very tolerant indeed by comparison.

There were, of course, other such swings both in the English speaking world, and in other lands, at various times in human history. All of which just demonstrates how absurd the idea that certain issues are somehow over, simply because one side is less popular at a give moment in time.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

[jwalsh07]

The socialists have won. The problem is no one will admit it.

The biggest and latest news is that Canada is poised to socialise health care. But the signs of the socialist victory have been all around for us for years.

OK Jonah, if it's good enough for the Canadians and Europeans, it's good enough for me!

[billbears]

The challenge for social conservatives, it seems to me, is to make the best of what they consider a bad situation. But that would require making some painful capitulations -intellectual, moral, philosophical and financial.

Well look here, Jonah wants us to accept homosexuality too. Man the neocons over at NRO are just right on all counts. We should just give up and embrace it!! < /sarcasm>