Iranian Alert -- DAY 12 -- LIVE THREAD PING LIST

LIVE THREAD PING LIST | 6.21.2003 | DoctorZin

[firewalk]

bttt

[dixiechick2000]

Excellent articles this morning, Dr.ZIn! Thank you!

"Khatami and the others, I think, are like the information ministry was in Iraq. They don't know what they are talking about anymore."

I had to put this here. I was caught off guard and it made me ROTFLOL! ;o)

"But you did say that the pro-democracy movement would not want the U.S. to interfere, or to get involved militarily.

We are talking about the difference between moral interference and military interference. When it comes to military interference, the people believe that will be the wrong move. Frankly speaking, for the mullahs in power, a U.S. attack will serve their purposes. Many people there, I think, see the world's superpower creating unrest in Afghanistan, in Iraq, and in the Israeli-Palestinian region. So with a U.S. attack the clerics would hope to say: "Didn't we tell you, these are your enemies."

But when we are talking about moral interference, this is what is destroying the power of the Islamic Republic. All this pressure the U.S. is exerting through different political channels. This is why we are seeing the mullahs backing off now -- for example, backing off from opening fire on all these protesters.

"We absolutely want to avoid responding to bloodshed with bloodshed"

"So if the European countries are really scared about their future interests in Iran, it's time for them to shift their position and put their investment into the people. Otherwise they may have to confront a very bloody revolution in Iran, which of course will have very bad consequences for years and years to come, for the Iranian people and for European economic partners.

All very good points.

Thank you, again!

[Peach]

A prayer for the brave seeking freedom. May their success be assured and swift.

[ellery]

bttt

[Ernest_at_the_Beach]

Thanks for your efforts!

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[lormand]

This picture appears to perhaps be showing some of the regime thugs harrassing and rounding up protesters, or maybe the other way around. Does anyone know for sure?

[DoctorZIn]

The picture shows the students protesters with a captured Hezbollah thug. They held several hostage for a while, demanding the release of the jailed students. But eventually they were released.

[grapeape]

Your guys are going to have to "storm the Bastille" if they really want to get this thing moving. They are going to have to take the prisons where their friends are being held and start putting the foreign mercenary rapists in there. This revolution is going to have to take a major step soon.

[grapeape]

Ping

[dixiechick2000]

Afternoon bump!

[DoctorZIn]

SMCCDI: Unrests continue shaking Iranian cities

SMCCDI (Information Service) June 21, 2003

Sporadic unrests and clshes are taking place, this evening, in several areas of the Iranian capital and some of the povincial cities.

The security forces and newly introduced "Information Minsitry's Special Force" members are having hard time to establish control as the protests are taking in the shape of guerilla tactics. Groups of young are vanishing at one time and appear, suddenly, to shout slogan and protest against the regime in aneighboring area of each unrest point.

Those caught are beaten and arrested by not without opposing resistance.

In the Capital, the unrests are taking place in the Tehran Pars area and especially in the Falake 2 and Tirandaz, as well in the northen area of Shariati.

Roads to Evin, in north Tehran where the infamous jail is located, are closed and surveilled as many families of those arrested gathered this evening to protest against the arest of their childs.

In Ahwaz, Kermanshah, Mashad the same trend is happening while in Shahin Shahr sound of sporadic shouting are heard.

The number of the arrests and kidnappings of the last nights is high and is reaching over fifteen thousands. The injuries are estimated at several hundreds while at least 10 have been killed.

Most student dorms and universities are in turmoil and in most academies students have refused to pass their final exams.

Source: SMCCDI

Source

[DoctorZIn]

A few of the anecdotal reports are hearing...

The regime's forces are attempting to retake control over Tehran Pars area but with no success at this time…

It appears that Iranians are having a more difficult time calling out of the country. Monitoring of calls appears up significantly. Many conversations are being dropped the moment mention of the events in Iran come up in the conversation...

The families of students arrested and taken to the infamous Evin prison are gathering outside of the prison to but the regime is not answering their requests for information and attempting to keep others from joining them...

Iranians are expressing shock and dismay over the silence of the US media to their struggle....

We are hearing reports of rape by the Basji of the female protesters...

Jailed students are reportedly being put in cells with Aids infected criminals...

On a more humorous note:

Iranians are wrapping mullah style turbans on the heads of dogs and donkeys and releasing them on the streets as a humorous protest.

"If you want on or off this Iran ping list, Freepmail me”

[DoctorZIn]

This is an important article by one of the most respected journalists in the middle-east...

Amir Taheri: Dealing with Iran requires patience

London 20/06/2003

The words "regime change" are being uttered again. Washington hawks concerned about Iran's nuclear capacity are urging the overthrow of its Islamist government. These hawks confuse Iran with Saddam Hussain's Iraq.

Iraq was a mere torture chamber for a brutal dictator. Unlike in Iraq, there is no need for a military confrontation in Iran, a country with a well-developed opposition, which allows a lively debate between hardliners and moderates, and has a strong chance of democratisation without U.S. intervention. Iran resembles a double-headed eagle, trying to fly in opposite directions at the same time.

One head represents the Khomeinist revolution, with its forlorn ambition of exporting a bankrupt ideology and creating an Islamic superpower to confront the American "Great Satan" and establishing Islam as the only faith of mankind.

The other head represents the Iranian nation-state, one of the oldest in the world, that has little interest in Islamic piety, let alone militancy. For instance Tehran, with a population of 12 million, has just over 700 mosques, compared with 2,600 in Riyadh, the Saudi capital, with two million inhabitants.

A poll conducted by a state-owned company in Tehran in February revealed that 70 per cent of Iranians had a favourable view of the U.S. (which is thus more popular in Iran than in Britain, let alone in France and Germany).

More than 60 per cent of Iran's population of 70 million is younger than 30 and cannot clearly remember life before the Islamist revolution of 1979. The country is unable to provide the educational, leisure and job opportunities it's discontented youth needs.

In terms of disposable individual income the average Iranian today is 50 per cent poorer than in 1977.

A report by the International Monetary Fund on brain-drain puts it at No. 1 among 91 developing nations. Each year up to 180,000 highly educated Iranians emigrate, mostly to North America, and there are more Iranian doctors in Canada than in Iran. Youth unemployment hovers around 30 per cent.

This discontented generation, yearning for a more liberal and open society, should give the U.S. cause for hope of evolutionary regime change. For the past eight days, thousands of students have been protesting against the regime in Iran. Starting in Tehran University, the movement has spread to campuses in other cities.

It has also attracted some middle-class support, while industrial workers in a number of cities have held walkouts in solidarity.

The Khomeinist establishment is no longer strong enough to crush its opponents, as it routinely did throughout the 1980s and 1990s. The armed forces and also the police have made it clear that they will not shoot anti-regime demonstrators and the regime's hired thugs, known as the Followers of the Party of God (Ansar Hezbollah), are not numerous enough or confident enough to beat opponents and disperse demonstrations.

Yet Iran is not on the verge of a second revolution or civil war, as some commentators suggest. The volcano, hissing menacingly, is unlikely soon to erupt.

The students' demand for constitutional change seems to have some support within the establishment.

More than two thirds of the members of the Islamic Majlis (parliament) have published an open letter to Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, the spiritual leader, to endorse the call for the separation of mosque and state.

Another open letter, signed by 250 intellectuals with impeccable Khomeinist credentials, goes further by calling for the establishment of a Western-style democratic system.

A consensus may yet emerge inside Iran for change through a referendum. One popular idea is to remove two articles of the Constitution and amend six others, thus separating the mosque from the state. Under the proposals the position of Supreme Guide, held by Ayatollah Khamenei, would be abolished, allowing Iran to become a "normal" republic with a president and parliament elected by and accountable to the people.

Today hardly anyone, even within the establishment, is prepared to defend the principle of Velayat-e Faqih (Custodianship of the Cleric) under which a mullah or high cleric - the Supreme Guide - is regarded as the embodiment of divine will on earth and given absolute powers.

The claim last week by Khamenei that the demonstrations were organised by American mercenaries was part of an initial panic reaction by a frightened regime. Since then wiser counsel seems to have prevailed.

Now, even Khamenei's associates admit that the pro-democracy movement is too broad-based to be dismissed as part of the pressure that the Bush Administration is exerting on the regime.

The American presence in countries neighbouring Iran, especially Iraq and Afghanistan, has put the fear of God in the Khomeinist establishment. This does not mean, however, that there is any support for an aggressive posture by the U.S. among the demonstrators.

The threat of American military action could backfire by triggering an Iranian nationalistic reflex, giving succour to the hardliners.

As Iran enters a delicate phase in its internal political evolution, it is important that the U.S. and the EU be on the same side in dealing with Tehran.

Pressure on such issues as nuclear non-proliferation and Tehran's sponsorship of terrorism must be accompanied by support for the pro-democracy movement, and promises of aid and trade in exchange for reform.

Dealing with Iran requires tact and patience. Broadly speaking, Iran is on the right path, although zigzags and even temporary reversals cannot be ruled out. Less chatter about regime change by hot-heads in Washington circles would help Iran's moderates.

The writer, is an Iranian author and journalist based in Europe. His e-mail is:

amirtaheri@benadorassociates.com

http://www.gulf-news.com/Articles/print.asp?ArticleID=90710

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you so much for keeping us informed. The western media is more coward than callous, imho....paying 'protection money' to the assorted international bad guys in the form of puff pieces or silence.

People around the world are following the students courageous stand in Iran - on the (increasingly relevant) net.

[JulieRNR21]

Late night......BUMP

[dixiechick2000]

"The security forces and newly introduced "Information Minsitry's Special Force" members are having hard time to establish control as the protests are taking in the shape of guerilla tactics. Groups of young are vanishing at one time and appear, suddenly, to shout slogan and protest against the regime in aneighboring area of each unrest point."

It sounds like they are somewhat organizing. Maybe they are developing some leaders inside Iran. I hope so.

Prayers for the kidnapped, imprisoned, and dead...

[dixiechick2000]

"Iranians are expressing shock and dismay over the silence of the US media to their struggle...."

Me, too, Dr.ZIn...me, too.

Hearing of the rapes and the protesters in cells with aids infected criminals is very disturbing. Prayers for them...

" Iranians are wrapping mullah style turbans on the heads of dogs and donkeys and releasing them on the streets as a humorous protest."

LOL! I'm glad they still have a sense of humor!

[McGavin999]

There needs to be more then the families outside the prisons, there needs to be a LOT of people gathering outside the prison demanding answers. Ordianary people, not just students.

[DoctorZIn]

There needs to be more then the families outside the prisons, there needs to be a LOT of people gathering outside the prison demanding answers. Ordianary people, not just students.

It is my understanding that the regime has blocked access to most of the streets leading to the prison.