What Goes Around Comes Around - The Only Clear Winner in This SCO Versus IBM Case is Microsoft

PBS ^ | JUNE 19, 2003 | Robert X. Cringely

[ShadowAce]

Red Hat offers Advanced Server--but you can't get it for free. SuSE doesn't even offer a downloadable version. Look at the major distributors--they all offer a version of Linux that you must pay for.

Granted--there are many distros that do not have a for-pay version, but the fact that several of the big boys DO, puts the lie to the claim that Linux must be free-as-in-beer.

The whole point of Linux is not its price point--the whole point is that you, the customer, have direct access to the source code. Thus, when something isn't working quite right for your installation, you have the power to fix it--on the spot, rather than placing a call to tech support.

It's not free to run or support--you need the expertise for that--just like you do for Windows.

[Dominic Harr]

Actually I'd prefer a GPL, open source snicker.

:-D

[Bush2000]

SCO's only efforts are to take Linux over lock stock and barrel, period.

So, in addition to being crack smoking open source sycophants, you're also mind-readers? Get real. IBM doesn't own Linux. SCO's suit against IBM, at worst, would prevent Linux geeks from copying technology.

That would only solve the SCO IP issue. That wouldn't solve the issue of anybody else's IP being in Linux, and even worse it would just be a reverse stealing of all the work that the Linux volunteers have put into Linux for years as a gift, not to SCO, but to the world.

Stealing other peoples' IP just so you can put it in Linux is not only illegal but immoral. If this has happened, Torvalds and company are going down big-time.

[Bush2000]

I deploy to both Windows and HP-UX, and I do have one departmental web server and one test app server running Red Hat and Apache.

Yeah, I note you use the word deploy. I'm talking about everyday development. You and I both know that you use Windows, not HP-UX or Linux. Why?!? Why?!? Why?!? Can't Linux measure up?!?

[Bush2000]

The whole point of Linux is not its price point--the whole point is that you, the customer, have direct access to the source code. Thus, when something isn't working quite right for your installation, you have the power to fix it--on the spot, rather than placing a call to tech support. It's not free to run or support--you need the expertise for that--just like you do for Windows.

Harr has been blathering on-and-on-and-on about vendor lock-in. But the fact of the matter is that customers are indeed going to pay some vendor to support their crappy Linux code. So the lock-in still exists. It's simply moved from MS to some other company.

[ShadowAce]

So the lock-in still exists

With Java, I agree. With C, Perl, Python, shell scripting, I don't agree. It all depends on the tools you use. I use Quanta Plus for my development. It allows me to write virtually anything I want in any language, and it will highlight the code according to what I am writing in. It's pretty cool.

[Dominic Harr]

I'm talking about everyday development.

I do dev on NT4 at work (corporate standard, not up to me) and both Windows and Red Hat at home.

I find Linux to be the best server OS going, and altho it is not yet as fully functional as Windows, the only real shortage is quality games.

And as you know, I'm dealing with that in my own way . . . :-D

[Bush2000]

I do dev on NT4 at work (corporate standard, not up to me) and both Windows and Red Hat at home.

So you admit that Windows is a better development environment. Thanks. We can move on now...

I find Linux to be the best server OS going, and altho it is not yet as fully functional as Windows, the only real shortage is quality games.

That makes zero sense. Nobody runs desktop games on a server OS, charlatan.

And as you know, I'm dealing with that in my own way . . . :-D

Rrrrright. You've been talking, talking, talking about it for years. More hot air, as far as I'm concerned.

[Dominic Harr]

You've been talking, talking, talking about it for years.

About a year, yes. That's not too long for one person on a project this size. In fact, by industry standards, it's rather amazing.

And it's just about there -- 95% there.

Early feedback on the alpha was *great*.

[Bush2000]

About a year, yes. That's not too long for one person on a project this size. In fact, by industry standards, it's rather amazing.

Great. You're a legend in your own mind.

And it's just about there -- 95% there.

Based on your half-baked ideas, you don't strike me as a "closer". I won't be holding my breath.

[Nick Danger]

Submitted for your approval: A large American corporation that sends its employees into discussion forums, all around the Internet... spewing insults, cackling like jackals, and behaving like thugs.

What sort of corporation does this? What kind of personality is at its core? And what of the people who join it, like it, and stay?

You're about to be transported into a world of egotistical greed beyond your imagination. A world where truth and lies have no distinction; where anything can and will be said to win the moment; and where insult and bombast are the order of the day.

Welcome to the world of the Internet Thug, and a corporate face that could only have spawned in... the Twilight Zone.

[HiTech RedNeck]

the obviously illogical license

It's very logical. The only prayer SCO has of taking over Linux per se is to win its impossible claim that it owns the IP of all operating systems worldwide. Otherwise the court will force SCO to reveal to Torvalds what needs to be done to purge Linux of SCO content.

[HiTech RedNeck]

"Stealing through barratry is OK for me but not for thee!"

Yeah, that's your hypocritical turkey gobble.

[HiTech RedNeck]

At worst someone else, perhaps in a different country, will pick up the Linux torch. It will be a classic case of corporate slaying of their golden goose.

[Bush2000]

Submitted for your approval: A large American corporation that sends its employees into discussion forums, all around the Internet... spewing insults, cackling like jackals, and behaving like thugs.

What are you saying, Nick? That IBM put you up to this? Tsk, tsk. For shame...

[Bush2000]

Submitted for your approval: A large American corporation that sends its employees into discussion forums, all around the Internet... spewing insults, cackling like jackals, and behaving like thugs.

What are you saying, Nick? That IBM put you up to this? Tsk, tsk. For shame...

[Bush2000]

Submitted for your approval: A large American corporation that sends its employees into discussion forums, all around the Internet... spewing insults, cackling like jackals, and behaving like thugs.

What are you saying, Nick? IBM put you up to this? Tsk, tsk. For shame...

[Bush2000]

At worst someone else, perhaps in a different country, will pick up the Linux torch. It will be a classic case of corporate slaying of their golden goose.

If SCO succeeds in seizing the golden goose, you might as well stick a fork in Linux. Granted, that's a longshot. But it's worthy of speculation. The only reason that Linux has gotten where it has in the past few years isn't because of hackers writing code in their free time; it's because of investment by large corporate sponsors like IBM (and [sic] SCO). It won't matter whether Linux goes offshore. It would be a pariah. And anybody who distributes it openly would get their ass sued.

[Bush2000]

Don't be surprised when Torvalds gets sued. It's just a matter of time.

[InfraRed]

How will they do that, if the code is 'trade secret', and never publicly released?

The code has already been publicly released (by SCO). It's now a matter of determining which lines -if any- need to be replaced. Before the courts can render a verdict, SCO will have to provide evidence. IF the courts rule in SCO's favor, you can bet that the source (a person) of the code will be identified. Code originating from that source would be purged.

the growing loss of income to US software companies who sell products for profit,

There is one particular entity that has caused plenty of US software companies to lose income by bundling "free" application programs with its OS. Over the years, that model has not worked out too well for many companies, and more companies recognize the danger each day. If it's OK to develop and bundle free apps with an OS, it's also OK to develop and bundle a free OS with your hardware or services.

further expansion of insecure code created by foreigners into US markets and government

I am also wary of foreign code, but it's coming at us from all directions (H1B visas, outsourcing, etc). Having US companies inspect and certify distributions/installations is probably the best that can be expected. Unfortunately, there is a great deal of closed source that will never be seen by the eyes of 3rd party analysts.

I also have a problem with Torvalds ego, whereby he refuses to give up personal ownership to IEEE at minimum, but instead insists on complete authoritative rights.

Who knows, maybe some shyster lawyers can back Linus into a corner and force such a decision. It's a real shame that you, personally, don't get to dictate Mr. Torvalds' decisions for him. Maybe if you were to relinquish control of your projects to IEEE, Linus might follow your example. Hey, can you imagine the result if Microsoft gave up ownership of Windows to the IEEE? ;)