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Bill Would Require Scientific Proof for Applying Endangered Species Act
Talon News ^ | 07/01/03 | Jimmy Moore

Posted on 07/01/2003 6:45:48 AM PDT by bedolido

WASHINGTON (Talon News) -- Rep. C. L. "Butch" Otter (R-ID) has proposed a bill that would require scientific proof that land should be restricted before the Endangered Species Act can be applied to public land.

This bill, called the Scientifically Identifying the Need for Critical Habitat (SINCH) Act, or H.R. 2602, would let the secretary of Interior decide whether the habitat that holds these limited species is threatened or endangered. Under the Endangered Species Act, a critical habitat includes any area where an endangered species lives as well as any territory that it decides to migrate to in order to repopulate.

The federal government is required to talk to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service or the National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration's fisheries office before anything can be done within the confines of a designated critical habitat in order to protect the wildlife from harm.

Additionally, government agencies must also consult with species protection regulators before anything can be done, regardless of whether an area has been designated a restricted critical habitat or not.

The Fish and Wildlife Service will experience a budget shortfall this year because of court-mandated deadlines brought on by environmentalist lawsuits that have created critical habitat areas for 32 new species so far this year. The agency expects it will need $120 to $150 million to manage any additional critical habitat listings that will become available this year.

There are currently 31 lawsuits in the courts over critical habitat designations with another 36 on the verge of suing. The Fish and Wildlife Service is in the process of complying with 35 different court orders regarding critical habitat designations.

"Give the people who live here and the local leaders responsible for complying with the law some credit for common sense and good intentions," Otter said in support of his bill. "And if you're going to throw a blanket over big chunks of our land, you better make sure you have the solid evidence to back it up."

Otter says the Interior secretary can determine whether a critical habitat designation is needed or not. He added that sound science combined with cooberating evidence should be used when labeling these areas as well as the species that live there.

Copyright © 2003 Talon News -- All rights reserved.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; Miscellaneous; News/Current Events; US: Rhode Island
KEYWORDS: act; bill; endangered; environment; esa; hr2602; proof; require; scientific; sinch; species

1 posted on 07/01/2003 6:45:48 AM PDT by bedolido
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To: bedolido
Some good news for a change
2 posted on 07/01/2003 6:49:27 AM PDT by MJY1288 (The Gifted One is Clueless)
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To: bedolido
a bill that would require scientific proof that land should be restricted before the Endangered Species Act can be applied to public land.

What about private land?

Is this just government protecting itself?

3 posted on 07/01/2003 6:51:15 AM PDT by StriperSniper (Frogs are for gigging)
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To: farmfriend
ping
4 posted on 07/01/2003 6:54:53 AM PDT by Libertarianize the GOP (Ideas have consequences)
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To: bedolido
Rep. C. L. "Butch" Otter (R-ID) has proposed a bill that would require scientific proof that land should be restricted before the Endangered Species Act can be applied to public land.... This bill...would let the secretary of Interior decide whether the habitat that holds these limited species is threatened or endangered.

The secretary of the Interior, always a great scientist. You can bank on it. What bullshit.

5 posted on 07/01/2003 6:59:06 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: bedolido
Scientific proof? What's wrong with the old tried and true standby. In the past, all that has been needed is three or more scruffy and unwashed sensitive environmentalists (and, recreational ganja users) to provide really, really sincere testimony. Often, this testimony was enforced by or more celebrities who spoke dramatically and ensured that the fact that the construction that would destroy the habitat in question woulld block the ocean view from the servants' quarters had nothing to do with her testimony. Why, all of a sudden after all these years, do we need scientific proof?
6 posted on 07/01/2003 7:11:28 AM PDT by Tacis
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To: Tacis
Why, all of a sudden after all these years, do we need scientific proof?

:-D

7 posted on 07/01/2003 7:16:18 AM PDT by Amelia (It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
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To: bedolido
This is a bit concerning for me. In the jargon of the science world, 'proof' is not an absolute term. It is not like mathematics where a proof of a statement can be established once and forever. Proof in a scientific sense is more like a process - a process that takes time, often in quantities measured in years - that is never truly finished.

My worry is that if there is a species that is in real danger, this bill and it's call for proof might cause a intolerable delay in action. After all, they're will always be skeptics. Abuses of the current laws aside, I'm worried that this bill might be causing new problems instead of just fixing the old.

8 posted on 07/01/2003 7:29:37 AM PDT by Tony Niar Brain (Choose your enemies carefully, for you will become like them...)
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To: Carry_Okie; farmfriend; Tailgunner Joe; countrydummy; AuntB; Jeff Head; madfly; EBUCK; redrock; ...
Comments?
9 posted on 07/01/2003 7:41:46 AM PDT by sauropod (Watch out for low flying brooms! The Witch has left the Wal-Mart)
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To: Movemout; blam; 1rudeboy; B4Ranch; kitchen; editor-surveyor
Comments?
10 posted on 07/01/2003 7:42:28 AM PDT by sauropod (Watch out for low flying brooms! The Witch has left the Wal-Mart)
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To: bedolido
Thanks for posting this information.

I hope this bill gets some traction. It is desperately needed....if only to raise the debate on the ESA. If you take the USF&W situation, and multiply the court mandated and Congressionally mandated rules, by which these agencies must work under (USFS, BLM, Army Corp of Engineers) and add in the FOIA that is being exploited by many of the greenie organizations (tying up valuable resources)......you begin to see where a LOT of our taxpayer dollars are going.

I often use the example that even if a hole needs to be dug in order to put in a fence post on national lands, it requires a cultural analysis (for artifacts). It is beyond STUPID!!!!

Many often turn around and point the finger at the men and women who work for these agencies as being stupid, lazy, ineffectual, and unresponsive. But, imo, MUCH of the blame goes to those who try to tie these agencies up in bureaucratic red tape...and the liberally packed courts.
11 posted on 07/01/2003 7:44:28 AM PDT by justshe (Educate....not Denigrate !)
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To: bedolido
Is anyone else a tad bit upset that there seems to have been NO previous requirement for this?
12 posted on 07/01/2003 8:02:59 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (For an Evil Super Genius, you aren't too bright are you?)
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To: sauropod
Butch Otter is my congressman. I have written him several times and he is much more conservative and oritented towards the constitution than most congresscritters.

Even though he is trying to do a good thing here and improve the ESA, he is trying to improve something that IMHO is universally corrupt and has already sunsetted.

There is but one answer to the ESA, END IT! and end all of the corrupt enviro-jihadist and NGO lobbying that has built up around it. It and the mechansims that have built up around it was the great enabler for the unbelievable situation in:


Klamath Falls in 2001

... which is ongoing to this day.

Unfortunately that huge mechanism is precisely why even some good congressmen balk at it...too much money involved, too many "jobs" (that's a laugh) surrounding it and they don;t want the political baggage of double tapping the thing.

Well, that's exactly what is required and I pray someone up there will have the cajones to not only ropose it, but to push it through with a vengance.

Jeff

13 posted on 07/01/2003 8:17:10 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: sauropod; Carry_Okie
See my post number 13...the "ropose" towards the end should be "propose". Sorry for the typo...confounded fumble-fingers.
14 posted on 07/01/2003 8:25:51 AM PDT by Jeff Head
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To: bedolido
"Give the people who live here and the local leaders responsible for complying with the law some credit for common sense and good intentions," Otter said in support of his bill. "And if you're going to throw a blanket over big chunks of our land, you better make sure you have the solid evidence to back it up."

Hoo-Rah and Amen!

Send a fax or note to Rep. C. L. "Butch" Otter and thank him for this long overdue step in the right direction!

610 W Hubbard
Ste 206
Coeur d'Alene, ID 83814
Phone Number: 208-667-0127
Fax Number: 202-667-0310
or go to http://www.house.gov/otter/email.htm
and fill in the message for his e-mail.

Give this man your support where ever you live - let him hear from you.

15 posted on 07/01/2003 8:36:48 AM PDT by yoe (some people can actually get work done with out the burden of political correctness, Pipes is one!)
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To: Jeff Head
You will recall that my big concern with "sound science" is who gets to control what that means. With government as powerful as it is in universities, that does not bode well for good stewardship. Further, the response time in legitimate cases of emergency is too slow with a system that is that bureaucratic. It could put landowners under a cloud of doubt for decades.

I think we do need habitat protection in this country, but we need to gradually privatize it so that the landowner has a stake in caring for habitat. We will get better work for less.

If you want, I'll repost that article of mine that Henry Lamb ran in eco-logic.
16 posted on 07/01/2003 8:39:43 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (And the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.)
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To: bedolido
It seems to me like restricting land for protection of endangered species is taking land for public use. Does the government compensate land owners for the restrictions? If not they should.
17 posted on 07/01/2003 8:40:26 AM PDT by DannyTN (Note left on my door by a pack of neighborhood dogs.)
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To: Tony Niar Brain
If the species is so fragile that it needs us to protect it. It will go extinct anyway, we are just delaying the inevitable.
18 posted on 07/01/2003 8:45:53 AM PDT by CyberSpartacus
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To: bedolido; marsh2; dixiechick2000; Mama_Bear; doug from upland; WolfsView; Issaquahking; amom; ...
Rights, farms, environmrnt ping.

Let me know if you wish to be added or removed from this list.

19 posted on 07/01/2003 8:51:28 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: farmfriend
BTTT!!!!!
20 posted on 07/01/2003 9:06:31 AM PDT by E.G.C.
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To: Carry_Okie; Jeff Head
If you want, I'll repost that article of mine that Henry Lamb ran in eco-logic.

I had just pinged someone to this one the other day.

I've gone ahead and re-pinged everyone to it in light of this article.

“Sound Science” and Crumbling Structure

21 posted on 07/01/2003 9:09:59 AM PDT by farmfriend ( Isaiah 55:10,11)
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To: bedolido
We don' need no steenkin' proofs, we are envirogreenocologists.
22 posted on 07/01/2003 9:12:52 AM PDT by RightWhale (gazing at shadows)
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To: StriperSniper
The entire EPA and the Endangered Species Act needs to be gotten rid of.
23 posted on 07/01/2003 9:15:54 AM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Even if the government took all your earnings, you wouldn’t be, in its eyes, a slave.)
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To: farmfriend
Thanks. This time I'll bookmark it.
24 posted on 07/01/2003 9:51:10 AM PDT by Carry_Okie (And the Lord God took the man and put him in the Garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.)
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To: sauropod; farmfriend
Comments?

I don't know much about it yet, but it would seem that giving the Secretary of the Interior (like a Babbit) this kind of pull doesn't solve a lot. I for one would like to see the ESA go away or be drastically changed.

I would be interested to know what Chuck Cushman thought about this, his people are good at picking apart legislation.

25 posted on 07/01/2003 9:58:19 AM PDT by AAABEST
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To: farmfriend
Protect Private Property Rights!

Stop the attacks on our Freedoms by the wacko, extreme left-wing, lunatic fringe, dirt worshipping Green Jihadist, enviro-nazis terrorist's and their toadies in the media!

Protect The Forest...Eradicate The Greenies!

Fighting Irresponsible Radical Environmentalism!

Freedom Is Worth Fighting For!
26 posted on 07/01/2003 11:53:18 AM PDT by blackie
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To: bedolido
Not only should there be scientific proof when applying the fascist ESA, there needs to be publication in scientific journals of the need for land restrictions so it may be peer reviewed. (And "deep ecology" is not a recognized disciple; it's blood and soil nature worship, so deep ecology journals are out!)

Further, the ESA should be applied only to the collectivized, socialist government land, not private property. And if the ESA is applied to private land, the taxpayer must compensate the land owner with a price reflecting the fullest and best use of that land, as determined by the affected land owner. No exceptions, and it's not reviewable by any bureaucrat or court.

Further, any bureaucrat, judge or politician that has in the past taken private property under the ESA without paying compensation will be subject to seizure of all his property, wages and accounts by affected landowners. Failure by these people to turn over all assets within 24 hours of a judgement would be sentenced to 50 years in prison somewhere in northern Alaska.

Finally, any so-called environmental group or foundation that aided in the seizure of private property under the fascist ESA would be subject to pay damage claims at 50 times the court determined damages. And these courts would be manned only by individuals who own property and work the land. Lawyers need not apply, unless they hate the ESA.

I have more, but I'll quit for now.
27 posted on 07/02/2003 6:46:59 AM PDT by sergeantdave
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