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The Founders Understood the Importance of Free Immigration (barf)
The Wall Street Journal ^ | July 7th, 2003 | Brendan Miniter

Posted on 07/03/2003 11:19:30 AM PDT by Tancred

Edited on 04/23/2004 12:05:40 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

"[King George III] has endeavored to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws of Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands."


(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: immigration; independenceday

1 posted on 07/03/2003 11:19:31 AM PDT by Tancred
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To: Tancred; A. Pole
This is from the Wall Street Journal, huh?

weeellll, let me sum it up. The article is saying:

"Let's flood America with an oversupply of workers so business can exploit cheap labor."

"And we'll put this one over on the American worker by saying immigration is a noble thing."

"Then we'll laugh all the way to the bank."
2 posted on 07/03/2003 11:25:01 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
So, the founders had in mind letting people come in no matter what their agenda? is that why they had laws against
such things a treasonius behavior, and had set up Militia laws to protect us from foreign invasion.

So when is it invasion and when is it naturalization.
That was then, this is now!

9-11 changed a lot of view points, excpet idiots like
this writer.

Ops4 God BLess America!
3 posted on 07/03/2003 11:25:04 AM PDT by OPS4
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To: Tancred
America has just waged two wars to rid the world of insular, tyrannical regimes so that free people may live in peace.

ROTFLMAO!

I sure hope we had a better reason than that!

4 posted on 07/03/2003 11:27:29 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
Where in the Constitution does it say that I have to pay for their health care and education. When anyone comes here and demands services that I am required to pay for that is theft.
5 posted on 07/03/2003 11:32:28 AM PDT by Lets Roll NOW
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To: Tancred
When one examines the population and size of counties won in the last election, one makes the following discovery:

Gore: 127,000,000 / 575,184 = population density of 220 people per Square Mile

Bush: 143,000,000 / 2,432,456 = population density of 59 people per Square Mile

Conclusion:

The more people you pack into a place, the less freedom you have, and the more people vote democrat.

Is it any wonder that democrats love immigration?

6 posted on 07/03/2003 11:35:14 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
That is the right of free people to live where they wish.

But lecturing us on how to live is your job, right?

7 posted on 07/03/2003 11:36:35 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
"A society cut off from such migrations loses the vitality new people bring to the culture as well as the prosperity they create through their industry and eventually turns inward and tyrannical. "

The bunch thats been coming in for the last 20 years or so have not created any "prosperity" through their "industry", but they sure know how to suck off those of us that do!

And "vitality", I guess, means riots and gang-bangers?, child molesting? or maybe a bit of "sniper activity"?.

Stop illegal immigration before it destroys the USA.
8 posted on 07/03/2003 11:38:16 AM PDT by Roughneck (Starve the Beast!)
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To: Tancred
We are a nation of immigrants

Oh, please--not that one again.

Outside of Africa--where mankind originated--every nation is a nation of immigrants.

So?

9 posted on 07/03/2003 11:38:30 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
has endeavored to prevent the population of these States

And now we are populated enough.

WSJ has always supported the undermining of American wage-market power. If the illegals were stock analysts and CEOs WSJ would be screaming bloody murder.

10 posted on 07/03/2003 11:39:13 AM PDT by Shermy
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To: Shermy
And now we are populated enough.

I couldn't agree more.

11 posted on 07/03/2003 11:45:39 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
This is so much BS. King George wanted immigration of skilled individuals stopped. These skilled individuals created wealth that was rapidily becoming a challange to England and English goods consumed by the colonies. So the unskilled British could come but they had to keep out the skilled Germans and others.
12 posted on 07/03/2003 11:45:39 AM PDT by Investment Biker
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To: Tancred
Obviously Neo-Conservative trash. I am not sure if the GOP has a clue that the bulk of the GOP base wants immigration reduced dramatically, that the bulk of the GOP base is against globalism. While some posters may disagree, people that hold neo-conservative views in the real world are few and far between.
13 posted on 07/03/2003 11:46:23 AM PDT by JNB
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To: Shermy
If the illegals were stock analysts and CEOs WSJ would be screaming bloody murder.

A funny thing about outsourcing, too: Why don't they outsource CEO jobs to India along with the rest of ours?

14 posted on 07/03/2003 11:47:06 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: JNB; Shermy
the bulk of the GOP base wants immigration reduced dramatically

See my post on this thread numbered 6.

15 posted on 07/03/2003 11:48:33 AM PDT by Age of Reason (Proud to Be Called an Immigration Hypocrite)
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To: Tancred
So now what the Founders said is important.
16 posted on 07/03/2003 12:10:28 PM PDT by Digger
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To: Age of Reason
And the new immigrants will eventually elect their own representatives who will vote them ever increasing social; entitlements a.k.a. welfare
17 posted on 07/03/2003 12:13:40 PM PDT by y2k_free_radical (i)
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To: Tancred
"...the policy or advantage of (immigration) taking place in a body (I mean the settling of them in a body) may be much questioned; for, by so doing, they retain the language, habits, and principles (good and bad) which they bring with them. Whereas by an intermixture with our people, they get assimilated to our customs, measures, and laws: in a word, soon become one people." George Washington in letter to Vice President John Adams.

"Those who come hither are generally of the most ignorant stupid sort of their own nation... not being used to liberty, they know not how to make a modest use of it... (In elections) they come in droves, and carry all before them, except in one or two counties... In short, unless the stream of their importation could be turned from this to other colonies,... they will soon so outnumber us, that all advantages we have will not in my opinion be able to preserve our language, and even our government will become precarious... Yet, I am not for refusing entirely to admit them into our colonies; all that seems to be necessary is to distribute them equally, mix them with the English, establish English schools where they are now too thick settled." Benjamin Franklin

"Nothing can be more opposed (to the principles of American government) than the maxims of absolute monarchies. Yet, from such we are to expect the greater number of imigrants. They will bring with them the principles of the government they leave, imbibed in their early youth; or, if able to throw them off, it will be in exchange for an unbounded licentiousness, passing, as is usual, from one extreme to another. It would be a miracle were they to stop precisely at the point of temperate liberty. These principles, with their language, they will transmit to their children. In proporation to their numbers, they will share with us the legislation. They will infuse into it their spirit, warp and bias its direction, and render it a heterogeneous, incoherent, distracted mass." Thomas Jefferson Notes on Virginia

"In the recommendation to admit indiscriminately foreign imigrants of every description to the privileges of American citizens, on their first entrance into our country, there is an attempt to break down every pale which has been erected for the preservation of the national spirit and a national character; and to let in the most powerful means of perverting and corrupting both the one and the other." Alexander Hamilton

"Every society has a right to fix the fundamental principles of its association, and to say to all individuals, that if they contemplate pursuits beyond the limits of these principles and involving dangers which the society chooses to avoid, they must go somewhere else for their exercise; that we want no citizens, and still less ephemeral and pseudo-citizens, on such terms. We may exclude them from our territory, as we do persons infected with disease." Thomas Jefferson to William H. Crawford, 1816

18 posted on 07/03/2003 12:16:16 PM PDT by skeeter (Fac ut vivas)
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To: Roughneck
And since the MEXICANOS refuse to assimilate they form their own little countries as they invade the US
19 posted on 07/03/2003 12:17:09 PM PDT by y2k_free_radical (i)
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To: y2k_free_radical
And since the MEXICANOS refuse to assimilate they form their own little countries as they invade the US


Yup. Thats why we must cut off the freebies to this bunch of blood-suckers.
20 posted on 07/03/2003 12:32:33 PM PDT by Roughneck (Starve the Beast!)
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Comment #21 Removed by Moderator

Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Tancred
This is a question that would benefit from a serious historical-philosophical investigation. The WSJ is simply presenting propaganda for its own view, and shouldn't be taken very seriously on this issue. We can all define freedom as the freedom to get what we want or what serves our interest. It requires more thought to ask what a free society really requires, how it functions, what makes it live and what brings it too an end.

I gather this article is a substitute for the scandalous "There Should Be Open Borders" editorial that they used to greet the Fourth with. If I remember correctly that article even proposed that restrictions on immigration be barred by constitutional amendment, a view that disqualifies the Journal as a serious commentator on this question, for can anyone be so stupid to support such a policy after 9/11 or to give its longtime advocates any credence?

We can certainly argue about how much immigration the country should take in or can assimilate or benefit from. But let's do it in the rational, realistic way the founders would have done, not by idealizing immigration and ignoring the problems it brings.

"With equal pleasure I have often taken notice, that Providence has been pleased to give us this one connected country, to united people, a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same lanuage, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established their general Liberty and Independence." -- John Jay, Federalist 2

"May it not happen in fine that the minority of citizens may become a majority of PERSONS, by the accession of alien residents, of a casual concourse of adventurers, or of those whom the Constitution of the State has not admitted to rights of suffrage? -- James Madison, Federalist 43

23 posted on 07/03/2003 1:17:05 PM PDT by x
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To: OPS4
So, the founders had in mind letting people come in no matter what their agenda?

Could you show me just where the writer says that?
24 posted on 07/03/2003 3:03:15 PM PDT by Valin (Humor is just another defense against the universe.)
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To: Roughneck
The bunch thats been coming in for the last 20 years or so have not created any "prosperity" through their "industry",

Really? Then I guess all those small stores I see starting up are just an illusion.

I'll have to tell this to Hwoon and Kadarh, Dovovan, Sean, Dimitry.
25 posted on 07/03/2003 3:09:12 PM PDT by Valin (Humor is just another defense against the universe.)
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To: x
What's so great about America (Must Read)
The Christian Science Monitor ^ | 7/3/03 | Dinesh D'Souza


RANCHO SANTA FE, CALIF. – The conventional wisdom is that immigrants come to America to get rich. This notion is conveyed endlessly in the "rags to riches" literature on immigrants, and it is reinforced by America's critics, who like to think of the United States as buying the affection of immigrants through the promise of making them filthy rich. But this Horatio Alger narrative is woefully incomplete; indeed, it misses the real attraction of America to immigrants, and to people around the world.


There is enough truth in the conventional account to give it a surface plausibility.
Certainly America offers a degree of mobility and opportunity unavailable elsewhere, even in Europe. Only in the US could Pierre Omidyar, whose ancestry is Iranian and who grew up in France, have started a company like eBay. Only in the US could Vinod Khosla, the son of an Indian Army officer, become a shaper of the technology industry and a billionaire to boot.


In addition to providing unprecedented social mobility and opportunity, America gives a better life to the ordinary guy than does any other country. Let's be honest: Rich people live well everywhere. America's greatness is that it has extended the benefits of affluence, traditionally available to the very few, to a large segment of society. We live in a nation where "poor" people have TV sets and microwave ovens, where construction workers cheerfully spend $4 on a nonfat latte, where maids drive very nice cars, where plumbers take their families on vacation to St. Kitts.
Recently I asked an acquaintance in Bombay why he has been trying so hard to relocate to America. He replied, "I really want to move to a country where the poor people are fat."


The typical immigrant, who is used to the dilapidated infrastructure, mind-numbing inefficiency, and multilayered corruption of third-world countries, arrives in the US to discover, to his wonder and delight, that everything works: Roads are clean and paper-smooth, highway signs clear and accurate; public toilets function properly; when you pick up the telephone you get a dial tone; you can even buy things from the store and then take them back.


The American supermarket is a thing to behold: endless aisles of every imaginable product, many types of cereal, 50 flavors of ice cream. The place is full of unappreciated inventions: quilted toilet paper, fabric softener, cordless phones, disposable diapers, and roll-on luggage.
So, yes, in material terms, America offers the newcomer a better life. Still, the material allure of America does not capture the deepest source of its appeal.


Recently I asked myself how my life would have been different if I had not come to America. I was raised in a middle-class family in India. I didn't have luxuries, but I didn't lack necessities. Materially, my life is better in the US, but it is not a fundamental difference. My life has changed far more dramatically in other ways.
Had I remained in India, I would probably live my entire existence within a five-mile radius of where I was born. I would undoubtedly have married a woman of my identical religious and socioeconomic background, possibly someone selected by my parents. I would face relentless pressure to become an engineer or a doctor.
My socialization would have been entirely within my own ethnic community. I would have a whole set of opinions that could be predicted in advance. In sum, my destiny would, to a large degree, have been given to me.


By coming to America, I've seen my life freed of these confines. At Dartmouth College, I became interested in literature and switched my major to the humanities. Soon, I developed a fascination with politics, and resolved to become a writer, which is something you can do in America, and which is not easy to do in India.
I married a woman of English, Scots-Irish, French, and German ancestry. Eventually, I found myself working in the White House, even though I wasn't an American citizen. I can't imagine any other country allowing a noncitizen to work in its inner citadel of government.


In most of the world, even today, identity and fate are largely handed to you. This is not to say that you have no choice, but it is choice within given parameters. In America, by contrast, you get to write the script of your own life. What to be, where to live, whom to love, whom to marry, what to believe, what religion to practice - these are all decisions that, in America, we make for ourselves. Here, we're architects of our own destiny.


"Self determination" is the incredibly powerful idea that is behind the worldwide appeal of the US. Young people throughout the world find irresistible the prospect of being in the driver's seat of their own lives. So, too, the immigrant discovers that America permits him to break free of the constraints that have held him captive, so that the future becomes a landscape of his own choosing.
The phrase that captures this unique aspect of America is the "pursuit of happiness."


Nobel laureate V.S. Naipaul analyzes that concept this way: "It is an elastic idea; it fits all men. It implies a certain kind of society, a certain kind of awakened spirit. So much is contained in it: the idea of the individual, responsibility, choice, the life of the intellect, the idea of vocation and perfectibility and achievement.
It is an immense human idea. It cannot be reduced to a fixed system. It cannot generate fanaticism. But it is known to exist, and because of that, other more rigid systems in the end blow away."


• Dinesh D'Souza is the author of 'What's So Great About America.' He is the Rishwain Fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University in Palo Alto, Calif.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/939842/posts
26 posted on 07/03/2003 3:11:43 PM PDT by Valin (Humor is just another defense against the universe.)
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To: Valin
I think if you read more carefully you will find I disagreed with the writer of this article.

My question was, Invasion of terror or naturalization for immigrants? the invasion must be stopped!

There does that help you understand?

Ops4 God Bless America!
27 posted on 07/04/2003 9:01:13 AM PDT by OPS4
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To: Tancred
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/945879/posts
28 posted on 07/14/2003 9:59:19 AM PDT by presidio9 (RUN AL, RUN!!!)
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