Rules of Engagement in Iraq Threaten Army Troops

StrategyPage.com ^

[overtaxed_canadian]

LEADERSHIP: Rules of Engagement in Iraq Threaten Army Troops

July 8, 2003: Marine and Army troops in Iraq are upset over Rules of Engagement (ROEs) being implemented by Army commanders. While Marines are allowed to carry their weapons, both rifles and machine-guns, ready to use, Army units, especially non-combat ones (including Military Police) are being increasingly restrictive rules regarding the use and handling of weapons. Unlike the Marines, Army convoys do not display any weapons, making it appear as if the convoy is unarmed. For the Marines, this is madness. Marine convoys bristle with weapons, making it clear what will happen if anyone should be so foolish as to attack them. Army MPs are under orders not to handle their machine-guns while on roadblock duty unless they received orders from their headquarters. Army troops are allowed to carry only two M-16 magazines, the rest being kept locked up. Marines are incredulous when they encounter this. Since Marines and Army troops control adjacent sectors, there is ample opportunities for troops from the two services to run into each other and compare notes. It has not gone unnoticed by American troops, or the Iraqis that are attacking them, that nearly all the Americans attacked are Army troops. The Army ROEs tell the Iraqis that Army troops are an easier targets, equipped with an ROE that also serves as a virtual placard saying "shoot me, I have a hard time shooting back."

[TheCrusader]

Shades of Vietnam, stupid rules of engagement. Remember the vietcong running into rubber tree plantations because for a time Americans were under orders not to fire into the rubber trees? Or they would run into Cambodia, also 'off limits' to U.S. troops. It's time to leave Iraq now anyway - Saddam & the Saddamites aren't coming back, and the spec ops swarming all over Iraq will keep an eye on any further developments. Those ungrateful sub-species of humans aren't worth another drop of American blood.

[oldtimer]

And I thought the Generals were running this thing.

Reminds me of Korea and Vietnam when the libs were running the war from DC, and tying the Generals arm behind them.

[squidly]

Sounds like the generals are running it, if Marine and Army ROE are different.

[Spirited]

"As drudge says, send jenna bush..."

Didn't know he said it.
Glad to hear it. I said they should send those two at the outset. The war would be waged very differently when it was mine instead of thine.

Lots who weren't against are now. The Pols are feeling no pain over all this.

[Spirited]

"As drudge says, send jenna bush..."

Didn't know he said it.
Glad to hear it. I said they should send those two at the outset. The war would be waged very differently when it was mine instead of thine.

Lots who weren't against are now. The Pols are feeling no pain over all this. It's just the blood/lives of others.

[mystery-ak]

Rummy was in the Navy.

[sheik yerbouty]

Make them more frightened; much more!

[fooman]

I am for the war in Iraq, but not liberia and not stupid ROE.

Also we should quickly set up local governnors and mayors and have armed iraq's patroling the pipelines.

We should have roughnecks and locals working 24x7 to get the country pumping oil.

[ArneFufkin]

I don't buy this at all...in fact my hubby promised to try to call me tonight..and I will ask him....as far as the convoy..that is not true....hubby has been on several and vehicles have been well armed.

BUMP!

[ReaganCowboy]

I had to literally steal ammunition for my soldiers, in order to be armed and ready, during both Operations Desert Storm (Saudi/Kuwait/Iraq) and Restore Hope (Somalia).

I was in command of a very small detachment that roamed far and wide on the battlefield, and I'd be damned if I or my men and women be left defenseless.

Don't make me the Secretary of the Army; I'd issue every soldier an M16 and 120 rounds the day they completed Advanced Individual Training, and require them to hold on to the weapon as long as they stayed in the Army. Complete 10 years of service, and the weapon is yours for cost. Complete 20 years, and the weapon is yours for free.

[verity]

You believe everything you read?

[Terp]

hubby promised to try to call me tonight..and I will ask him....

Please let us know what he says if he gets through to you. I have to say like you I think this story is questionable to say the least. So many are quick to believe anything they read in the news still after what we know to be true about CNN, NYT's and other liars.....

[MonroeDNA]

Rummy is a Navy guy, and no way he knows about this. When he does (and he will, trust me), all hell is going to break loose, and those clintonian leftovers will go away.

And the Army will be left to fight as they see fit.

As they want.

[MonroeDNA]

Whatever armchair General imposed this, will be strung up by Rummy.

[1rudeboy]

How many rounds does a typical M-16 military magazine contain? How many magazines does a typical soldier on patrol carry (including the one in the weapon)?

[XHogPilot]

Insanity indeed! BTT

[cajun-jack]

it was the same way in nam in 70 & 71..i was in phu bia with the 101st , there wa a village (very small) 500 meters or so off our perimeter, itwas called a friendly fire zone..unless we were engaged, we had to call for permission to engage them even if they had set off trip flares in our wire......

this is stupid and will get lots of young men killed....."pc" is getting young men killed.......so very, very sad

[mystery-ak]

Im gonna ask him alright..he's about to move his other company, by convoy, up to Balad with his other company....he told me the first time that he checked to see if all the weapons were mounted properly and test fired.

[dr_who_2]

...with a big red bulls-eye while we're at it.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Three months of BS from the mainstream DNC PR agents and Freepers are ready to fire RUMMY??? What the H?

Somebody forgot to tell these guys:

Mass Reenlistment Marks July 4th Celebration in Baghdad [Morale at bottom? Bunk.]
DoD ^ | July 5, 2003 | U.S. Army Pfc. James Matise / 101st Airborne Division

As for "massive casualties":

There were more US casualties in one Chicago porch accident  last week (13 fatalities and at least 57 wounded)  than we had US casualties across all of Iraq during the two weeks of a Operation Scorpion, a major campaign to root out some really bad guys - June 15-June 29.

 

Out of ~146,000 troops in Iraq, our US troops suffered 7 fatalities due to hostile fire. 2 unknown - missing troops recovered - foul play presumed. 3 non-hostile (unspecified) fatalities.

1 fatality and 2 wounded in vehicle accident responding to Marines who were engaged by hostile forces...for a total of 33 total casualties across a nation the size of California w/ a population of ~ 24 million: 13 total fatalities, 20 wounded.

 

And look what the troops involved in Operation Scorpion alone accomplished:

 

***During Operation Desert Scorpion which lasted from June 15 to June 29, the 4th Infantry Division and the 1st Armored Division conducted multiple raids resulting in 1,330 individuals being detained. Confiscated weapons include 497 AK-47s, 235 hand grenades, 124 rocket-propelled grenades, 22 machine guns, 130 pistols and 100 rifles and 8,122 rounds of ammunition. The division also confiscated $9,463,000 in U.S. dollars, 1,557,000,000 in Iraqi Dinars, 1,071 bars of gold and 52 vehicles.***  Link

Our troops rock!

Yet every day during three major, aggressive operations in June - when our guys were intentionally drawing enemy fire to root out the bad guys (and taking 'em out!), the press treated our awesome warriors as some poor victim dupes of an incompetent administration. Bunk! The press couldn't be more wrong - or more damn insulting!

 

Our troops, our military leaders - and our CIC deserve better from the press.

If someone in the Army is giving the command NOT to travel with weapons showing, it did not come from the top.