Rules of Engagement in Iraq Threaten Army Troops

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[overtaxed_canadian]

LEADERSHIP: Rules of Engagement in Iraq Threaten Army Troops

July 8, 2003: Marine and Army troops in Iraq are upset over Rules of Engagement (ROEs) being implemented by Army commanders. While Marines are allowed to carry their weapons, both rifles and machine-guns, ready to use, Army units, especially non-combat ones (including Military Police) are being increasingly restrictive rules regarding the use and handling of weapons. Unlike the Marines, Army convoys do not display any weapons, making it appear as if the convoy is unarmed. For the Marines, this is madness. Marine convoys bristle with weapons, making it clear what will happen if anyone should be so foolish as to attack them. Army MPs are under orders not to handle their machine-guns while on roadblock duty unless they received orders from their headquarters. Army troops are allowed to carry only two M-16 magazines, the rest being kept locked up. Marines are incredulous when they encounter this. Since Marines and Army troops control adjacent sectors, there is ample opportunities for troops from the two services to run into each other and compare notes. It has not gone unnoticed by American troops, or the Iraqis that are attacking them, that nearly all the Americans attacked are Army troops. The Army ROEs tell the Iraqis that Army troops are an easier targets, equipped with an ROE that also serves as a virtual placard saying "shoot me, I have a hard time shooting back."

[KineticKitty]

Yes, I am having a hard time reading this as well, my husband has spoke of wanting to shoot back while on a convoy, but the only thing keeping them from doing so is that someone will fire one or two shots off and hide (or run) like a coward, and what mainly keeps them from shooting back is they are unsure of where it actually came from, not because they aren't allowed to have guns or because of no ammo. I wonder if it isn't a company or one of the divisions doing this, because it doesn't seem like it could be "army wide".

[mystery-ak]

Mike(hubby) just called from Kuwait, he's back from Balad and preparing to take his other Co up in the very near future.....his weapons on the convoy include: automatic weapons(SAWS),50 Cals, grenade launchers, and M16's sticking out of every window....every GI is issued the basic load of 3 magazines and re-supplied when needed......

[TexKat]

Colonel Hunt was saying something about this on Bill O'Reilly about this tonight. I just got bits and pieces of it. I will see if I can find the transcript.

[pawdoggie]

This "story" smacks of the "only one MRE a day" crap we heard at the start of Operation IF. Obviously, if the Army has one set of ROE, and the Marines have another, then ROE isn't being dictated from the top. There are some force protection issues (like convoys escorted by armored vehicles) that need to be addressed (as they were in other conflicts), and the GIs need to learn that they have to be on guard (but not trigger-happy) in dealing with the locals. I like what their doing offering rewards for turning in enemy combatants. Fight Saddam's blood money (for killing Americans) with some of our own.

[theFIRMbss]

>Obviously, if the Army has one set of ROE, and the Marines have another, then ROE isn't being dictated from the top

I thought about this
last night, and I wondered if
political types

who have managed to
take charge of the Army might
purposefully put

engagement tactics
in place which cause GI deaths
because it makes Bush

look bad when the press
reports just the deaths, not the
overall context...

Are some branches of
the military run by
political blocs

directly controlled
by 'Rats, and others controlled
by Republicans?

[drachenfels]

Standard for the M16 is the 30 round magazine. Basic load is 7 mags; 1 in the weapon, and 6 on the soldier. Total of 240 rounds.

That's not to discuss the better ideas of a: not putting in more than about 28 rounds to minimize the odds of full mags jamming due to max spring compression, or b: making the first couple of rounds in the mag tracer (so that when you're about to run dry, you see the tracers).

Additionally, understand that some folks carry more either due to SOP (standard operating procedures), or because they figure it's cheap insurance.

Additionally: any patrol will have SAWs (5.56 mm Squad Automatic Weapons) and M203 grenade launchers with them..

If they're vehicle mounted, they'll also have crew served weapons: either M2 .50 Brownings, or the Mk19 40mm grenade launcher (looks like a dwarf .50; feeds from a belt). Not to mention the AT4 missle (our single shot version of the RPG-7).

Cheers!

[1rudeboy]

Thanks. I've always wondered, since the folks in the movies always have a limitless supply.