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To: TheCrusader
Luther arrogantly addmitted that he added words to the Bible

The above statement is one of the knocks against Luther? The whole Catholic church is built on "adding words to the Bible." Not only that, you don't understand that the issue is not Luther's mistakes, sins and flaws, it is the authority of the Word of God as the basis of the Christian faith. When Luther taught unscriptural theology, he was wrong, as is the "Pope," when he says:

In 1986 in Assisi, Italy, John Paul II joined in a circle to pray and meditate with snake handlers from Togo, shamans and tribal witchdoctors from West Africa, Hindu gurus from India, Buddhist monks from Thailand, and liberal protestant clergymen from Great Britain, as all joined hands in "pray[ing] to their gods for 'peace'." The Pope also announced in Assisi that there are "many paths to God."(Sources: Christian News in a reprint of a 1993 article by Michael A. Hoffman in Researcher, Vol. 4, No. 3; and the 4/93, Flashpoint.)

Again in 1986, in Fiji, "the Pope quaffed a potent island liquor, accepted three whale's teeth and watched a spear dance during an ancient welcoming ceremony dating back to when the Fijians practiced cannibalism. ... [Fijian tribal] chiefs handed the Pope a mud-colored, alcoholic drink called kava [a drink condemned by early missionaries to Fiji as devil worship] ... [which] he downed in a single gulp." At the Pope's next stop in Auckland, New Zealand, 15 elders of the Maoris tribe pressed noses with the Pope, "to exchange each other's breath, which is the life force." (Source: 11/22/86, Chicago Tribune.)

On January 9-10, 1993, the Pope again hosted the Dalai Lama of Tibetan Buddhism and representatives of many other false and ungodly religions. It was an incredible sight to see these weird persons, "holy books" in hand, all standing serenely, side-by-side with the Pope. In the 2/10/93 issue of the official Vatican newspaper, L 'Osservatore Romano, the Pope said he recognizes within the devil worship sect of Voodoo, "God's riches ... the seed of the Word ... solidarity among believers ... for ... human liberation."

Although it passed completely without notice in the U.S. press, a bombshell that was dropped in Rome in November of 1996 continues to send shockwaves that are being felt in political and religious circles worldwide. The explosive charge was released by Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo in an address to the Fatima 2000 International Congress on World Peace held in Rome 11/18/96-11/23/96. Addressing an international audience of bishops, priests, nuns, and laity, the archbishop charged that there are members of the Catholic Church hierarchy in Rome who are secretly involved in formal satanic worship. He accused fellow Roman Catholic clergymen of protecting Satan and his minions: "The devil in the Catholic Church is so protected now that he is like an animal protected by the government; put on a game preserve that outlaws anyone, especially hunters, from trying to capture or kill it. The devil within the Church today is actually protected by certain Church authorities from the official devil-hunter in the Church -- the exorcist. ... To the question, 'Are there men of the curia who are followers of Satan?' Milingo responded, 'Certainly there are priests and bishops. I stop at this level of ecclesiastical hierarchy because I am an archbishop, higher than this I cannot go.' Milingo cited papal statements to back up his charges. 'Paul VI said that the smoke of Satan had entered into the Vatican.'" (Reported in the 3/3/97, The New American.) [Archbishop Milingo, an exorcist, is the author of the book, Face to Face With the Devil.]

In a 4/3/91 letter written by Pope John Paul II, addressed to "my beloved Muslim brothers and sisters," the Pope said, "I close my greeting to you with the words of one of my predecessors Pope Gregory VII, who in 1076 wrote to Al-Nasir, the Muslim ruler of Bijaya, present day Algeria: 'We believe in and confess one God, admittedly in a different way, and daily praise and venerate him, the creator of the world and the ruler of this world.'" The name Allah, was not invented by Muhammad, but was the name of a pagan god, long known and worshiped in the Middle East. In pre-Islamic days, Allah worship was on par with Baal worship, both originating in the Babylon region and both being Astral religions: the Sun, Moon, and Stars were the objects of worship. An Allah idol was one of some 360 idols in the Kabah, the sacred building at Mecca, now containing the famous black stone, a place of Islamic prayer and pilgrimages., the place to which the faithful turn to pray, again not new to Islam, but a practice of very ancient origins. The tribe into which Muhammad was born was devoted to the god Allah, Allah being the personal name of the Moon god.

Similarly New Ageish in his celebrated book, Crossing The Threshold of Hope (Knopf:1994), Pope John Paul II explains that "salvation and divinization" are the "ultimate purpose" of man's life: "The divinization of man comes from God" (p. l95). Likewise, the new universal Catechism of the Catholic Church, quoting St. Athanasius and St. Thomas Aquinas, declares, "For the Son of God became man so that we might become God. ... The only begotten Son of God ... assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods"

The RCC can't torture and burn people at the stake any more for reading the truth of the Bible in their own language. We're not going back to the Dark Ages, even if Luther was sometimes a cad. I'm a calvinistic Baptist, by the way.

59 posted on 07/11/2003 2:42:06 AM PDT by razorbak
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To: razorbak
"Luther arrogantly addmitted that he added words to the Bible. The above statement is one of the knocks against Luther? The whole Catholic church is built on "adding words to the Bible."

It is? Care to elaborate on this flimsy allegation? The King James Bible, (named after a human king, has the exact same New Testament canon as the Catholic Church. What was added by the Catholic Church, which gave us the Bible and maintained it in Latin since 400 A.D.?. The Bible did not fall from a parachute into Martin Luther's lap, it was assembled and kept intact by the Catholic Church since 400 A.D. Luther took that Bible and altered it to his personal liking.


"Not only that, you don't understand that the issue is not Luther's mistakes, sins and flaws, it is the authority of the Word of God as the basis of the Christian faith."

And exactly how do you know that the Bible is the word of God? Who told you this? Who taught Luther, Calvin and the Protestants that the Bible was the Word of God? The Roman Catholic Church, that's who. If not for the Catholic Church assembling, publishing and protecting the truths of the Bible down through the ages, you would not even have a Bible today. And if not for the Catholic Church's perennial teaching through the ages that the Bible is indeed the Word of God, Calvin, Luther, and you would not know that either. Saint Jerome weeded out the false gospels and epistles that abounded in the early Christian Church, and he and his team of Catholic scholars assembled the Latin Vulgate Bible circa 400 A.D., the very same Bible that you Protestants use today, (only you call seven of those canonical books the "Apocrypha"). So while you rant on with your vile anti-Catholic nonsense, you inadevertantly reveal that you completely trust the Roman Catholic Church's teaching that the Bible is the Word of God. For we taught this to the human founders of your Protestant churches.


"When Luther taught unscriptural theology, he was wrong, as is the "Pope," when he says: In 1986 in Assisi, Italy, John Paul II joined in a circle to pray and meditate with snake handlers from Togo, shamans and tribal witchdoctors from West Africa, Hindu gurus from India, Buddhist monks from Thailand, and liberal protestant clergymen from Great Britain, as all joined hands in "pray[ing] to their gods for 'peace'." The Pope also announced in Assisi that there are "many paths to God."(Sources: Christian News in a reprint of a 1993 article by Michael A. Hoffman in Researcher, Vol. 4, No. 3; and the 4/93, Flashpoint.)"

Some points that embarrass and condemn your silly allegation
.

(1). The Assissi interfaith prayer meeting of the world's relgious leaders had nothing to do with any single theology, or the Bible - it was held to promote world peace and help end religious persecution. With 160 world religious leaders attending, many of them Protestant Ministers, I'm sure the Calvinist "reformers", (of which you are a member), were represented at Assissi. But isn't it amazing that the Pope was able to get all these Christians and non-Christians gathered together in a Catholic Church? Is there a better way to expose the pagans to Christ and the gospel than to bring them directly into a Christian Cathedral? Notice the world came to the Pope, and not vice versa.

(2). Canon Law forbids Catholics to participate in non-Catholic worship services, but only allows them to attend these services passively, such as at a wedding or funeral. Anyway, this inter-religious gathering in Assissi was not about any particular religious "service", but only a staging area for everyone to pray for peace. What do you find offensive about a gathering to help promote world peace? When men meet at the U.N. to promote world peace does anyone care about what their faiths are? I think you're just envious that no Protestant leader has the power and influence to do what the Pope did.

(3). Hear what the Pope actually said at Assissi: ""it is essential... that religious people and communities should in the clearest and most radical way repudiate violence, all violence, starting with the violence that seeks to clothe itself in religion." Here's a quote from the Official Catechism of the Catholic Church, written by Pope JPII: "Although in ways known to Himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please Him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men".

Notice that during this gathering the Pope held his beloved Cross with Christ Crucified the entire time. To claim "the Pope prayed with them" is just another anti-Catholic red herring. The Pope prayed to Jesus Christ, along-side them. As Jesus commanded us to love our neighbors, so the Pope showed Jesus working through him in an act of love. Perhaps some of them will be converted as a result of coming to meet the Pope. (The Cheif Rabbi of Rome, Rabbi Zolli, was converted to the Catholic Church after witnessing the love that Pope Pius XII showed for Jews during WWII).

(4). Churches of your own "Baptist-Calvinist" tradition are now working feverishly to try to do what the Pope did at Assissi by gathering together with other religions to promote world peace. They just don't have his power to accomplish it. However, here is a great example of your own church trying to do what the Pope did.

An Open Letter from the Graduate Theological Union Presidents to the Leaders of our Religious Communities - October 2002.

Dear Friends: We write to our fellow (Protestant) religious leaders as Presidents of the nine member schools of the Graduate Theological Union and as the President of that Union. We are diverse in our religious beliefs. We differ from one another in our political stands on many issues. But we share a sense of concern and even alarm about the political and spiritual situation as our nation seems to be preparing for war with Iraq ---We urge you to use your leadership to seek the things that make for peace. We urge deeper understanding of the peoples and religions of the Middle East—and that the religious communities take a leading role in creating such a climate. We offer our willingness and the resources of our schools to work with you to help such activities flourish in our churches. With respect and deep concern,

signed,

Dr. Keith A. Russell, American Baptist Seminary of the West


"Again in 1986, in Fiji, "the Pope quaffed a potent island liquor, accepted three whale's teeth and watched a spear dance during an ancient welcoming ceremony dating back to when the Fijians practiced cannibalism. ... [Fijian tribal] chiefs handed the Pope a mud-colored, alcoholic drink called kava [a drink condemned by early missionaries to Fiji as devil worship] ... [which] he downed in a single gulp."

HAHAHAHA. This is beautiful, I just took some Kava in my tea last night. LOL. Kava is a natural herb used all over the earth, and sold in every health food/vitamin store in the U.S. It's similar to Ginsing, Camomile flowers, or Peppermint. And it's about as "potent" as Bob Dole before he started taking Viagra. LOL


"At the Pope's next stop in Auckland, New Zealand, 15 elders of the Maoris tribe pressed noses with the Pope, "to exchange each other's breath, which is the life force." (Source: 11/22/86, Chicago Tribune.)"

Thanks for the laugh, dude. Rubbing noses is heresy? LOL. Now let's get serious, here's a quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church, written by Pope JPII himself: Human life is sacred because from its beginning it involves the creative action of God and it remains for ever in a special relationship with the Creator, who is its sole end". (page 554, # 2258). The Pope knows Whom the "life force is". But thanks again for the giggles. smile


"On January 9-10, 1993, the Pope again hosted the Dalai Lama of Tibetan Buddhism and representatives of many other false and ungodly religions. It was an incredible sight to see these weird persons, "holy books" in hand, all standing serenely, side-by-side with the Pope. In the 2/10/93 issue of the official Vatican newspaper, L 'Osservatore Romano, the Pope said he recognizes within the devil worship sect of Voodoo, "God's riches ... the seed of the Word ... solidarity among believers ... for ... human liberation."

The "reliable" source of your information is a web site called "Antichrist Sideshow", where I have found each and every one of your quotes in this post so far. I see you're really searching for Truth with your far out sources. But here are a couple of very interesting quotes from this Satanic web site you got your information from that you failed to mention. They reveal the purpose, and some of the fruits of the Pope's visit with the various non-Christian and pagan peoples.

"I have never seen God, but today when I have seen the pope, I recognize that I have seen the good God,---" , said Sossa Guedehoungue, head of Benin's vodun community.

Voodoo leader Senou Zannou gave a formal speech in which he announced his son was becoming a Roman Catholic priest".

Funny, you didn't mention these quotes from your source, eh? Why are you afraid to admit that the Pope has evangelized and helped to convert some of these people? Why leave out such important information as this? Why hide from the truth?


"Although it passed completely without notice in the U.S. press, a bombshell that was dropped in Rome in November of 1996 continues to send shockwaves that are being felt in political and religious circles worldwide. The explosive charge was released by Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo in an address to the Fatima 2000 International Congress on World Peace held in Rome 11/18/96-11/23/96. Addressing an international audience of bishops, priests, nuns, and laity, the archbishop charged that there are members of the Catholic Church hierarchy in Rome who are secretly involved in formal satanic worship."

Once again your sources are shabby, at best. Malingo was so whacked out he left the Church, married an accupuncturist, and became a Moonie. He was then excommunicated. Archbishop Malingo suffered from mental illness during this time, and his marriage ceremony was actually performed by the Reverend Moon. After Malingo recovered his senses, and after he publicly recanted all his nonsense, he was readmitted into the Church. (Source = Tue, 29 May 2001 - "Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity).

Again, your half truths and lack of full information are tactics straight from the bowels of Hell.


Your sources of information, your inability to give the full accounts, your total lack of any real knowledge of the Catholic Church outside of what you read on the anti Catholic garbage internet sources are too much. I would answer your last two assinine statements, but I won't give any more of my precious time to your blind bigotry and blatant lies. Enough is enough.
69 posted on 07/11/2003 11:28:29 AM PDT by TheCrusader
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To: razorbak
"I'm a calvinistic Baptist, by the way"

You are also one smart Baptist. Good post. And scary too. It unfortunately supports my sad contention that RC doctrine is headed towards ostracizing, rejecting, condemning and persecuting ONLY those who insist on salvation by grace (reformation understanding, not tricky RC twisted understanding) alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.
Speaking of Calvin, I wonder how many Southern Baptists (whom I respect in many ways) know "once saved always saved" is Calvinist doctrine?
You would agree Calvin would not support the idea of a "decision for Christ", would you not?
Thank you for your excellent post.

102 posted on 07/11/2003 7:38:22 PM PDT by old-ager
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To: razorbak
You say the Catholic Church can't torture and burn people anymore. This statement indicates a misunderstanding of the Inquisition. There were inquisitions and there was The Inquisition, which never existed. It is a myth created by artists, writers, and anti-Catholics. Two recent books by non-Catholic historians have dismantled this myth: "Inquisition" by Edward Peters, and "The Spanish Inquisition" by Henry Kamen. The latter indicates that during the 300 years of the Spanish Inquisition an average of only three people a year were executed throughout the Spanish Empire, including the Americas, and burning at the stake was extremely rare. In other words the Church did not torture, execute, and burn hundreds of thousands as the myth would have it. Also, the Catholic Church never "added" words to Holy Scripture. Give examples, please.


115 posted on 07/13/2003 12:46:21 PM PDT by Joseph44
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To: razorbak
The name Allah, was not invented by Muhammad, but was the name of a pagan god, long known and worshiped in the Middle East. In pre-Islamic days, Allah worship was on par with Baal worship, both originating in the Babylon region and both being Astral religions: the Sun, Moon, and Stars were the objects of worship. An Allah idol was one of some 360 idols in the Kabah, the sacred building at Mecca, now containing the famous black stone, a place of Islamic prayer and pilgrimages., the place to which the faithful turn to pray, again not new to Islam, but a practice of very ancient origins. The tribe into which Muhammad was born was devoted to the god Allah, Allah being the personal name of the Moon god.

Very interesting. What is the source for this information?

167 posted on 07/16/2003 12:31:39 PM PDT by wideminded
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