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Time bomb (North Korea is the absolute craziest place on earth – MUST READ article)
Sydney Morning Herald ^
| July 12 2003
Posted on 07/11/2003 8:34:05 AM PDT by dead
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To: wcbtinman
One well-placed bomb, a couple of bullets....
Great idea, but we have tried decapitation by bomb attack three times in my memory -- Libya, Aghanistan and now Iraq -- and it hasn't worked very well.
Kadaffy is still alive and kicking, Bin Laden is releasing tapes and now Saddam is too. OK, you can say the tapes are fakes, but how can you prove it? It takes a body with multiple holes in it these days to prove a man is dead.
That brings us to the couple of bullets.
How you going to get a hitman close enough? In North Korea? If we have a single illegal on the ground there I would be utterly amazed. Spies go in, and they don't come out -- ever.
A coup-de-etat is possible, I guess but Kim Jong Il is a very paranoid and experienced survivor. If he wasn't he would be dead already.
There is no simple solution to these problems. If there was it would have been found by now. The end of the regime may be coming soon -- but it is not going to be pretty when it does.
41
posted on
07/11/2003 6:38:07 PM PDT
by
Ronin
(Qui tacet consentit!)
To: Paul Ross
Ah! Thanks for the information!
To: dead
A great career choice for young people would be a Korean speaking socialogist or psychologist. When these thing falls, it's going to be one of the most fascinating examples of human indoctrination ever seen.
43
posted on
07/11/2003 9:05:47 PM PDT
by
Mr.Clark
(From the darkness....I shall come)
To: El Laton Caliente
Tactical nukes are by no means the only option.
MOABs are infinately more attractive.
Many weapons in our arsenal are very usefull against large ground force concentrations.
44
posted on
07/11/2003 9:32:14 PM PDT
by
sarasmom
(Punish France.Ignore Germany.Forgive Russia.(Tell Turkey to lay off the hookah).)
To: wcbtinman
DPRK "Regime Change" through assassination is in fact a scenario that has been planned in intricate detail already, along with many many other scenarios and combinations of scenarios. At this point, it appears the North Koreans are going to "cross over the red line" in plutonium rod reprocessing, which is a very unfortunate thing indeed.
One way to destabilize would be to hit a soft target with limited civilian damage, such as the very elaborate Kim Il Sung mausoleum in P'yang, where Papa's body is on ice. Combined with a bombing or sabotage strike on that facility, backed immediately with a rumor operation within the country that a shadowy anti-Kim Jong il organization did it and more can be expected, and then a ramp up the said vitriol with Korean language broadcasts about the attack in Korean to the Korean people through all kinds of media, might be enough to start the downfall. China and or Russia would also have to declare an open refugee zone on the North's border and that fact would have to trickle down to North Korea's population as a magnet to deflate the country from it's human resources and create chaos. With nukes already in place, though, we would have to work with countries to stabilize and recover the assets very quickly. This is as sensitive an operation at this time as separating twins joined at the head, IMHO. Very risky, but also very risky at this point not to do anything.
45
posted on
07/12/2003 5:21:06 AM PDT
by
AmericanInTokyo
(Folks, I am NOT in Tokyo right now. So don't worry about me being nuked by N. Korea. OK? Thanks.)
To: Amelia
alerting you here
46
posted on
07/12/2003 5:21:55 AM PDT
by
AmericanInTokyo
(Folks, I am NOT in Tokyo right now. So don't worry about me being nuked by N. Korea. OK? Thanks.)
To: AmericanInTokyo
My own counter argument to the above is the minute there was a covert provocation by the Free West with amazing results within the heart of the beast in P'yang, no doubt the word would go out to sleeper cells in place in S. Korea and throughout Japan to start acts there. Our troops would probably be the first threatened or targeted with WMD. I myself think the the DPRK has the capability, and may be waiting, to unleash a WMD attack internally in those two countries with is provacateurs already firmly in place and probably possing WMDs (chems/bios).
47
posted on
07/12/2003 5:32:30 AM PDT
by
AmericanInTokyo
(Folks, I am NOT in Tokyo right now. So don't worry about me being nuked by N. Korea. OK? Thanks.)
To: AmericanInTokyo
Furthermore, an economic blockade would be quite limited in effect I believe. Corrupt dynamic exists between Japan and North Korea (yakuza/pachinko/bought off politicians), with a corrupt political system in place in Japan (LDP) which would strangely, suicidally allow it, for money transfers to be established through some other new routes and the eco blockade of the North would just be "gone around".
48
posted on
07/12/2003 5:35:25 AM PDT
by
AmericanInTokyo
(Folks, I am NOT in Tokyo right now. So don't worry about me being nuked by N. Korea. OK? Thanks.)
To: belmont_mark
Exactly as the PRC would wish; a situation where the Western left are nipping at the heels of Bush, while our pathetic excuse for the right become supporters of the actions of Communist Red China (and the Russians) as they convert the DPRK from a covertly aided crypto-ally into an overtly occupied satellite! In all fairness, we would be lucky to turn North Korea into an overtly occupied satellite. One of the Immutable Laws of FR, 'North Korea is a puppet, China pulls the strings', is dead wrong. The DPRK is a loose and deadly cannon. The North Korean people may fare no better than Tibet under Chinese rule, but that's a lot better than what they have now. It would also be safer for the neighbors, and ultimately, safer for us.
The article misses the mark about the PLA needing to make it to the DMZ before a DPRK attack on the South. They don't need to do that at all, they only make it to the DMZ before we can break their lines and push north into Pyongyang.
China wouldn't be able to hold onto them for long, anyway. Pressure from South Korea and Japan would threaten their economic prosperity, which is far more important to the Chinese than holding on to less than worthess real estate. They will want to grab it, but to give it back under their own terms.
What China doesn't want is a successful U.S. lead war that brings us to the Yalu, possibly for a long, long time. If they were able to sieze North Korea, and make it's return dependent upon U.S. forces leaving South Korea, then they'd have some real leverage. Many South Koreans would leap at the chance to get rid of us. With the threat from the DPRK gone, we'd have no reason to warrant such a large presence.
49
posted on
07/12/2003 5:44:33 AM PDT
by
Steel Wolf
(Stop reading my tagline.)
To: KC_Conspirator
So much for the concept of "limited war."
Thanks Harry Truman, the most overrated President in American history.
50
posted on
07/12/2003 5:45:48 AM PDT
by
Guillermo
(Proud Infidel)
To: belmont_mark
Who exactly welcomes an invasion of the South by the North?
Although I have seen may "get our troops out" posters, I have never seen anyopne wish for an actual invasion.
S Korea has twice the population and 50 times the economy of the North. Let THEM defend themselves.
American blood should not be spilt to defend people who despise us.
51
posted on
07/12/2003 5:51:40 AM PDT
by
Guillermo
(Proud Infidel)
To: r9etb
It would be a bloodbath, no doubt about it. The North Koreans don't have the fuel to back up an armored assault. Even if they did, the T-55's and T-72s that still run wouldn't make it far. They have no air support, and they'll be stuck on the roads (or in the mud, depending on the time of year).
Infantry, well, they could either die on the roads, or spend a few weeks walking over those hills. Except that they don't have weeks worth of food, water or ammo. Once they leave their bunkers, that will be the end of their resupply. 800,000 infantryman need a lot of food, and they won't be scavenging jack out of what they just shredded with artillery.
Their air force and navy will be swiss cheese by day 3. Their army will be able to inflict a huge opening shock, but they'll run out of steam very quickly.
52
posted on
07/12/2003 5:58:25 AM PDT
by
Steel Wolf
(Stop reading my tagline.)
To: dead
Good assessment and scorecard of the current situation.
Although..........The US is holding back, watching to see if North Korea crosses a "red line" by resuming reprocessing of its spent nuclear fuel stockpile to extract more plutonium........
Recent news report shows they HAVE!
Bump.
53
posted on
07/12/2003 6:14:54 AM PDT
by
DoctorMichael
(>>>>>Left Intentionally Blank<<<<<)
To: dead
"It's a lot worse than even George W. Bush thinks it is," says a senior Western diplomat who frequently visits Pyongyang. "It is something very depressing to the human spirit. They want everyone to think the same thing at the same time, and they are close to getting it. That's what makes it horrible." The tight grip of this leadership cult, and the suicidal militancy expressed in the song, make this and many other observers in the region wonder whether the Bush Administration really understands the beast it is now tackling through hardline diplomacy and tightening inspections of North Korean export shipments. "The idea that this is a ... state that only needs a prod to collapse is false," the diplomat said.Those who know the North Koreans say they are in a corner. "Do nothing and eventually they will collapse," the senior Western diplomat said. "Open up and they draw into question their social stability which is dependent on complete isolation. The conundrum is the reason why there are different factions arguing over how to go forward. The problem for all of them is that this regime cannot survive a breath of fresh air."
The Aussies are not exactly the sharpest knife in the draw when it comes to political analysis. This article obviously supports the Clinton administration's policy of engagement and succumbing to blackmail. Who can forget Albright in Pyongyang smiling and toasting this monster and appearing at a stadium to witness a propaganda spectacle worthy of Hitler and Stalin. I don't believe for a moment that everyone in NK thinks and walks in lockstep. Information gets into the country in many different ways, as we found out with the fall of the Berlin wall. Once Kim il-Jong is gone, we will witness an amazing transformation. We need to remain tough with the regime. It will give support to those who want to rid the country of Kim and pay dividends afterwards.
I lived in Poland during martial law and Solidarnosc. Reagan's characterization of the Soviet Union as an "evil empire" was welcomed and gave heart to those who started the dominos falling ending in the breakup of the Soviet Union. Now is not the time to go wobbly.
54
posted on
07/12/2003 6:17:58 AM PDT
by
kabar
To: Alamo-Girl
You're welcome! Some additional info:
Aerotech News and Review
Journal of Aerospace and Defense Industry News
|
Nov. 8th, 2002
|
Business News
High-energy laser destroys artillery projectile in flight
Shootdown marks dramatic technology breakthrough
Until today, nothing could stop an artillery projectile once it was fired.
Now, in a world's first, a high-energy laser, developed by TRW for the U.S. Army and the Israel Ministry of Defense, has intercepted an artillery projectile and caused it to explode harmlessly in the air.
The shootdown took place during a live-fire test of the TRW-built Mobile Tactical High- Energy Laser testbed, conducted by the U.S. Army, at its White Sands Missile Range in New Mexico.
"This shootdown shifts the paradigm for defensive capabilities. We've shown that even an artillery projectile hurtling through the air at supersonic speed is no match for a laser," said Lt. Gen. Joseph M. Cosumano, Jr., commanding general, U.S. Army Space and Missile Defense Command and Army Space Command. "Tactical high-energy lasers have the capacity to change the face of the battlefield."
The shootdown occurred as part of a new series of tests to determine MTHEL requirements and demonstrate the system's capabilities against a wide range of airborne targets. In earlier tests during 2000 and 2001, the testbed - then called the THEL/Advanced Concept Technology Demonstrator - focused on the threat of artillery rockets and succeeded in shooting down 25 Katyusha rockets, fired singly and in salvos.
"TRW's THEL technology is now proven against both short-range rockets and artillery projectiles. With this test, MTHEL further substantiates its potential to protect soldiers and key assets against attack by a variety of air threats," said Tim Hannemann, president and CEO of TRW Space & Electronics.
TRW developed the MTHEL testbed under contract to the U.S. Army, for the joint US Army and Israel Ministry of Defense THEL ACTD program. "We look forward to producing a prototype of a truly mobile version and operational tactical laser weapon as the MTHEL program gets underway."
Previous Home Forward
Page B3 ---------- AEROTECH News and Review ---------- Nov. 8th, 2002
[ AEROTECH Home Page and Previous Issues ]
And also this tidbit is interesting:
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Zapping Short-range Threats By Kerry Gildea, Contributing Editor United States, Israel developing a mobile laser to defend against everything from rockets to mortar shells 7 November 2002You can take it with you. At least, thats how the U.S. Army hopes its forces will use a high-power laser its developing. It plans to bring such weapons to future fights and knock out low-flying targets seconds before impact, when the speed of light may prove more effective than the alternativean intercepting missiles speed of flight. The laser knocked down an artillery shell for the first time on 5 November. The Mobile Tactical High Energy Laser (MTHEL) system, as the laser is called, is the charge of the Armys Space and Missile Defense Command (Arlington, Va.) and the focus of a cooperative program with the Israeli government. While missile-based defense systems like the Patriot defend against longer-range threats such as Scud missiles, tactical directed-energy systems are designed to intercept and destroyin a matter of secondslower-flying, short-range threats. These could include rockets, artillery shells, and cruise missiles, says Timothy W. Hannemann, president and CEO of TRWs Space & Electronics Group, the division of TRW Inc. (Cleveland, Ohio) that is building THEL, the stationary test version of MTHEL. Because photons in effect take no time to reach their targets, lasers are perfect for intercepting and destroying such last-minute threats. "Its pretty hard to run from a laser," says Hannemann. The weapon, which has a US $118.5 million, five-year budget, comprises three major subsystems: a command, control, communications and intelligence system, which includes an Israeli-provided fire control radar for acquisition and tracking of a target; a pointer-tracker system that controls the position of the laser beam; and a deuterium fluoride laser. "The real advantage of lasers is the potential for precision engagement," said Dan Wildt, TRWs program manager for new projects who has worked with laser technology development for 20 years. For example, he explained, laser operators can adjust the power levels of a laser to deliver more nearly the exact amount of energy necessary to destroy different types of targets. Middle East motivation The Army started testing high-energy laser against short-range rockets in the early 1990s, but at the time had to use very large laser systems, Hannemann said. In 1996, the United States and the Israeli Ministry of Defense (MoD) began developing a nonmobile THEL solely for Israels defense against the short-range Russian-built Katyusha rockets being fired over its northern border. However, the geopolitical dynamics shifted when Israel pulled out of Lebanon. That opened up more potential targets within Israel for Katyushas so a mobile system made more sense than the single static THEL placed on the border. The Israeli government decided to hold off on deploying THEL there until a smaller, more maneuverable version of the laser system could be built. Today that original THEL system, camouflaged to melt into the desert background, sits on a concrete platform at the Armys High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility (HELSTF, White Sands Missile Range, N.M.). There, in addition to its recent victory over artillery, it has knocked down 25 of 25 Katyusha rockets to date. In such tests, a Katyusha is fired from a rocket launcher several kilometers from the laser. Seconds later the laser system detects the launch with its fire control radar and tracks the streaking rocket. The THEL laser optics are mounted on a large gimbaled assembly that swivels to track the target and keep the chemical laser beam directed at it. Within seconds of being struck by the laser beam, the 3-meter-long Katyusha explodes. The Army has touted the success of the system in a series of flight tests, but wont disclose the specifics of the Katyushas velocities and range. Until this past summer, the Armys interest in the system appeared purely one of improving the accuracy of directed-energy laser technologies. Then, as Israel became more intent on developing a mobile version, the Army started rethinking its own plans, eyeing mobile THEL as a countermeasure for troops on the move. Along with other branches of the military, it is now considering mounting the laser on helicopters, ground vehicles, and destroyers. [For the China Sunburn missile problem, eh? ] On top of making it mobile, the Army is expanding THELs repertoire, according to Josef Shwartz, TRWs program manager for THEL programs. The service needs a terminal defense system to protect troops and assets in the field from short-range missiles, artillery, cruise missiles, unmanned aerial vehicles, rockets and mortars, he said. The Army expects an MTHEL demonstrator up and running in 2006 or 2007. This article has been updated.
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55
posted on
07/12/2003 6:42:28 AM PDT
by
Paul Ross
(A nation which can prefer disgrace to danger is prepared for a master, and deserves one!-A. Hamilton)
To: AmericanInTokyo
My own counter argument to the above is the minute there was a covert provocation by the Free West with amazing results within the heart of the beast in P'yang, no doubt the word would go out to sleeper cells in place in S. Korea and throughout Japan to start acts there. Our troops would probably be the first threatened or targeted with WMD. I myself think the the DPRK has the capability, and may be waiting, to unleash a WMD attack internally in those two countries with is provacateurs already firmly in place and probably possing WMDs (chems/bios). I concur with your assessment....but have a question.
If the Nk's responded as you suggest....wouldn't the fact that the initial provacation was covert in nature, force them to be seen as the aggressor.
56
posted on
07/12/2003 6:56:57 AM PDT
by
Focault's Pendulum
(Successfully surviving on a single digit income without gub'mint assistance.)
To: Paul Ross
Thank you so much for the articles! IMHO, laser technology is crucial to future defense shields.
To: All
58
posted on
07/12/2003 7:12:43 AM PDT
by
Focault's Pendulum
(Successfully surviving on a single digit income without gub'mint assistance.)
To: TigerLikesRooster
Thanks so much for the assessment. Very thoughtful and well-written. I really appreciate it.
I especially agree with your last sentence.
59
posted on
07/12/2003 7:59:12 AM PDT
by
Amelia
(It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
To: AmericanInTokyo
Thanks for the analysis.
The 'axis of evil' comments seem more & more apt as time goes along, don't they?
60
posted on
07/12/2003 8:39:51 AM PDT
by
Amelia
(It's better to light a single candle than to curse the darkness)
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