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It pays to avoid a ticket -- or fight one
MSN Money ^ | July 15, 2003 | Chris Solomon

Posted on 07/15/2003 11:22:14 AM PDT by mvpel

The best advice is simply not to speed, at least not brazenly. But if you get nailed, fight it -- because a $50 ticket can cost you thousands once your insurer gets wind of it.

 By Chris Solomon

Now is a very bad time to have a lead foot.

States facing yawning budget gaps are finding new money by pinching speeders more frequently -- and pinching them harder, too. Texas lawmakers recently added $30 to fines for speeding tickets. California has added a surcharge of between $7 and $20, depending on the severity of the violation. And the Illinois Legislature is set to tag an additional $4 to the cost of a minor speeding ticket.

True, four more bucks won’t change your life, but the fine is usually the least of your worries. Even one speeding ticket can begin to turn your name to mud in your insurer’s eyes. More than one can cost you thousands of dollars in higher premiums.

Insurance companies say punishing speeders is well warranted: In one study, California drivers with one speeding citation in a three-year period had a crash rate 50% higher, on average, than those with no infractions -- and the crash rate more than doubled for those who had two or more tickets, according to the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety and the Highway Loss Data Institute, industry-sponsored research groups.

A ticket from Johnny Law does seem to slow people down, at least for a bit. A study of Ontario traffic statistics, published in the British medical journal the Lancet, found that a conviction for a moving violation cut the risk of a fatal crash in the following month by 35%. The benefit evaporated by four months after the conviction. Assigning penalty points to a driver’s license -- especially for speeding tickets -- reduced the risk of fatal crashes more than convictions without penalty points.

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Keeping your nose clean
Still, as long as running late is an American pastime, people will speed. And there are ways to protect yourself and your premiums. First, reduce your likelihood of getting snagged by the speed gun in these ways:


The traffic stop and its aftermath
You get pulled over anyway. Now what do you do?



TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Editorial; Government
KEYWORDS: insurance; police; speeding; tickets
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To: Gerish
"Regardless, it really makes the average Joe angry when police officers want respect from people and run around writing up bogus tickets to fill their quota for the month."

There is no need to write bogus tickets when so many people drive like maniacs. No one thinks they deserve a ticket, its always the other guy. My dad has never received a ticket in many decades of driving because he never deserved one.

41 posted on 07/15/2003 12:25:25 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: steveegg
There is a website you can go to that gives information on court activity in Wis. You can pull up traffic convictions by county and date. I have never seen a speeding ticket for ANY amount over be $75.
42 posted on 07/15/2003 12:25:59 PM PDT by Trust but Verify (Will work for W)
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To: BrooklynGOP
Sounds good to me, Brooklyn. Good luck!!
43 posted on 07/15/2003 12:27:29 PM PDT by Trust but Verify (Will work for W)
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To: BrooklynGOP
You might have a shot. Showing up is a good start. Do you have the ticket with you right now? If you do look at the lower right hand corner and see if the tax reg. number begins with a 93, 92 or 91....
44 posted on 07/15/2003 12:28:48 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: newwahoo
The problem is, instead of going after the people who are driving like maniacs, they hide out on the side of the road and pluck people out of the smooth-flowing prevailing speed of traffic that just happens to be higher than the arbitrary posted speed limit.
45 posted on 07/15/2003 12:29:31 PM PDT by mvpel (Michael Pelletier)
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To: mvpel
I've been pulled over about a half dozen times over the last 17 years. The last time I had a ticket that stuck was in 1986. I do a lot of driving for work (as much as 500 miles a week) and I do get burned in the occasional speed trap. But almost everytime I get pulled over, I get just a warning. I do sport an American flag on my back window and a Marine Corps bumber sticker. Maybe that has something to do with the cops giving me a break. Or maybe it's that I'm unfailingly polite to the officer and readily admit that I might have been going a "bit too fast." Cops evidently aren't used to that kind of honesty so they might be more inclined to give you a break.

The one time I did get a ticket, I fought it and showed up in court with a shirt and tie and yes-sired and no-sired everybody. During my testimony, I made sure to point out that the police officer who stopped me was very professional and polite but mentioned that perhaps in an honest mistake, he overestimated my speed.

Others showed up in sneakers and jeans and had sort of a slovenly and sloppy appearance. I got my ticket dismissed. Don't know about the others but I don't think they fared as well as they had sour expressions as they shuffled out of the hearing room.

A cheerful positive attitude is key in this whole process. Cop an attitude and you'll be stuck with an expensive ticket - no doubt about it.

46 posted on 07/15/2003 12:30:09 PM PDT by SamAdams76 (Back in boot camp! 245 (-55))
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To: newwahoo; Gerish
The first & last ticket I got was in 1973. It wasn't even a moving violation. I don't drive nuts. I don't drink and drive. I drive at or under the speed limit. I signal my turns. I don't cut people off. I stop at yellow, not red. Stuff like that.

I have gotten parking tickets, only because the parking meter guys & gals who patrol the courthouse square have superhuman powers and are standing at my car the SECOND the meter goes to 0:00. This claim is also repeated by anyone who has gotten a ticket at courthouse square.

47 posted on 07/15/2003 12:30:52 PM PDT by Catspaw
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To: mvpel
Be polite. “Most of the time, the motorist has very little chance. The officer has already has made up his mind,” says Wolfberg, the former cop. “The only real chance the driver has is to be nice.” Act peeved and a trooper may give you the full fine. Some will also flag the citation with a notation, like “ND” -- a note to a prosecutor or to himself (in some states, law-enforcement officers act as prosecutors in traffic court) to give a loudmouth “no deal” in court.

BS in my experience. If you are a nice looking lady a LEO, you will get a break.

48 posted on 07/15/2003 12:31:55 PM PDT by TankerKC (I guess I missed your point.)
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To: Trust but Verify; newwahoo; Gerish
Actually I just mailed the ticket in this morning. What do those numbers mean (93,92,91)?
Oh.. And after that ticket, 15 mins later, right next to my work there is yet another checkpoint. I got pulled over but they let me go. So something was definately up with checkpoints that day. This was July 10th, I think. Anything special going on July 10th, newwahoo?
Also, this is my first ticket, and I have had my license since 18 (I am 25). Would this be a factor?
49 posted on 07/15/2003 12:34:48 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: mvpel
I'm going to fall back on one of my usual responses when it comes to LE matters in other area. NYC is a unique place and my experiences so far often don't match up with how things are in rural areas and small municipalities. I could write yellow cabs all day long without even touching the great mass of aggressive and dangerous drivers here. We don't really need to pull out one guy from a group thats moving a bit faster than the posted limit.

I have to say though that the scariest drivers I've dealt with so far are the ones that can't speak english. How they get licenses is beyond me.

50 posted on 07/15/2003 12:37:22 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: mvpel
Cop no-shows. If you show up on your assigned date, defense attorneys say that in 20% to 25% of cases the ticket-writing officer won't. If the officer is required to show up (jurisdictions have different rules), no appearance usually means the ticket is thrown out. No-shows by police happen even more in summer, when even they take vacations.
If I'm not mistaken, the ticketing writing officer always has to be present, or the ticket can't be prosecuted. I know it's that way in Cleveland.

Another thing to keep in mind is questionable tickets. I got one for "shortcutting an intersection" when I turned around in a parking lot to get on a freeway instead of going 20 blocks in the wrong direction to get on at the "official" exit (only one side of our street has a ramp and the median blocks a left turn). A common practice at our company.

-I looked up the text of the city ordinance....it referred to an intersection.

-I looked up the definition of an "intersection" in the Ohio Revised Code. It didn't cover turning around and going back onto the same street.

I was ready to not only challenge the ticket but when I won, ask the judge to forbid further tickets from being written at that location for that offense.

The officer didn't show.

I figure they write these questionable tickets and don't show up. That way they can continue to collect quota points from the people who waiver the tickets, and don't get told to cut it out.

-Eric

51 posted on 07/15/2003 12:40:09 PM PDT by E Rocc (Reality is to liberals what garlic is to vampires.)
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To: TankerKC
If you are a nice looking lady or a LEO, you will get a break.
52 posted on 07/15/2003 12:42:32 PM PDT by TankerKC (I guess I missed your point.)
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To: TankerKC; newwahoo
BS in my experience. If you are a nice looking lady a LEO, you will get a break.

Yea, what's up with that? Also a co worker of mine has his detective friend's card. He got pulled over speeding, no seatbelt and his paperwork was expired and he got *NO* summons after flashing the card.

53 posted on 07/15/2003 12:46:00 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: BrooklynGOP
This drives me crazy. I have a brother and two sisters who are LEOs. None of them ever gets a ticket, though they drive like nuts. I have never been pulled over without getting a ticket (that's 4 times in 24 years).
54 posted on 07/15/2003 12:49:32 PM PDT by TankerKC (I guess I missed your point.)
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To: TankerKC
Get their cards and put them next to your license, so when you pull it out the p.o. sees it. I hear it works for a lot of people. Maybe I need to get one of those :P
55 posted on 07/15/2003 12:51:13 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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To: mvpel
If I get a ticket for speeding, I wouldn't fight it unless I WASN'T speeding.
56 posted on 07/15/2003 12:51:43 PM PDT by MEGoody
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To: BrooklynGOP
"What do those numbers mean (93,92,91)?"

Tax registry numbers are issued to use like social security numbers. The higher the number the newer the cop. Anyone with a tax ID number that begins with those three sequences is either from my class or from the one before mine and is still new to giving testimony.

"Anything special going on July 10th, newwahoo?"

Not as far as I know. But despite what the city says they have been giving overtime assignments to officers just to write moving violations. That can be good or bad. The guy may be really good at testimony which would be bad for you. He also may have taken the assignment trying to boost his income just before retirement. If you delay the court appearance as long as possible he may retire in the interim and "say f*ck the goddamn city" (pretty much the opinion of most veteran cops here) and not show up. Then the whole thing would get tossed.

"Also, this is my first ticket, and I have had my license since 18 (I am 25). Would this be a factor?"

If you're found guilty the judge will probably give you a break. You're a good driver at an age when many are not. I'd concentrate on the cop's testimony. Ask the judge to make him slow down if necessary. If he says he was 200 hundred feet away ask him how he was sure that he saw your car (especially if it was a color like gray) and not someone elses. Did he see your plate? How clearly marked was the lane? Were all the stripes on the lane still there or were they worn off in spots? Ask him how many hours he had been working that day and how many cars had he already pulled over. A ticket is not an especially memorable thing to us and you have to use that and the passage of time to punch holes in his testimony.

57 posted on 07/15/2003 12:53:02 PM PDT by newwahoo
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To: mvpel
Just a funny story
A friend of mine was pulled over for having a tail light out in Chicago in 1974. She was dressed like a hippie and the cop indicated her sex on the ticket as "male".
When she got to court she pointed out the error and the judge said: "The court apoligizes for the error, did you repair your tail light?" (She obviously didn't have a lawyer)
She said; "No, It wasn't broken"
The officer then explained to the judge that he observed that it was indeed broken.
My friend said: "If he couldn't tell I was a woman after talking to me and looking at my license, (she dressed VERY well for court) It's understandable that he also couldn't tell that my tail light was working properly."
The judge said: "I'm going to have to agree with the defendent." the ticket was dismissed.
I was there with her to experience her justice.
58 posted on 07/15/2003 12:53:28 PM PDT by The Brush
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To: mvpel
If I remember correctly, in California, when getting the ticket you can demand to have the "trial" at the county seat rather than the location where the ticket is issued. This can force the cop to travel a greater distance and they are not likly to do it.
59 posted on 07/15/2003 12:57:44 PM PDT by Drango (Just 5ยข a day will end pledge drives on FreeRepublic.)
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To: newwahoo
If you delay the court appearance as long as possible Yep. I got the same advice from somebody at work. 2 is the max numbef of times I can postpone the appearence, right? Ask him how many hours he had been working that day and how many cars had he already pulled over. A ticket is not an especially memorable thing to us and you have to use that and the passage of time to punch holes in his testimony. Well, given that he was lying he is not going to go from memory but will just say whatever.. This happened at about 8:45am (I was going to work). Another thing, the only reason why someone would want to drive on the shouler is because they'ld want to skip the traffic and get to the exit, given that I don't exit for like another 5-6 exits to get to work, should I bring proof of my place of work? Last question, I promise :)
60 posted on 07/15/2003 12:59:14 PM PDT by BrooklynGOP
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