Vietnam: 2003

The Freedom Institute ^ | July 17, 2003 | Adam Yoshida

[ALOHA RONNIE]

The BUSH Doctrine:

'Bringing DEMOCRACY & FREEDOM to everyone everywhere is EVERYONE's Answer'

...WORKS.

[risk]

If in four years it is still going on, you may very well be correct, but I don't see that happening.

Another way to look at this, however, is to see that the left and the right are equally determined not to "repeat" their strategic mistakes of the Vietnam era. In other words, the fight may be more bitter this time because the tactics will be steeped in history.

There are a lot more differences between Iraq and Viet Nam.

These may be less important than you might realize. An urban environment can be thought of as a jungle of people. Saddam's forces may have been trained and prepared for just this kind of a scenario. And the common people in Iraq are weak and culturally unprepared for fighting for their own freedom.

But the real reason it will not happen is because our troops in Iraq have the full support of this administration, and this administration intends to win.

To say this is to express hope. I agree. However, the fact remains that civilizations are clashing here, and a "war of liberation" may not ever be won. The war to eliminate terror funding, continued WMD buildup, and take the edges off pan-Arab nationalism is already won, however.

Two major comparisons to Vietnam hold: first, our country is again divided at home about the right way to stand against an external threat that is variously seen as severe to nonexistent. Second, we aren't going to "win" this war overnight; fighting it only may seem to stem the tide. I would argue that there is also a similar condition with our lack of will to commit massive force to eliminate Arab ability to fight from one end of the region to the other. The Road Map leads to hell, and Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Pakistan continue to pose horrific threats -- yet we bide our time and even commit resources to the PA while Israelis, Indians, Afghanis, and Chechyens continue to die. Students in Iran right this moment are bloody, confused, and betrayed after their July 9th uprising that predictably recieved little or no support from our CFR-dominated State Department. Indeed, the enemy is within.

The seeds of our decline were sewn when we tolerated internal revolt (as opposed to honest dissent) during the Vietnam war. And they fell on fertile ground, because we had prepared ourselves for defeat in Korea when we pulled back to the 38th parallel. MacArthur warned us that we would regret not winning that war decisively. And so we have.

People, the future is very dark. You must gird yourselves to defend America like you never have before.

[yonif]

bump for later read

[yonif]

The greatest danger to the United States at this moment are those fools and knaves who would cripple both the national defense and efforts to conduct an effective foreign policy. Always must we recall that, in times of war, there are but two parties: traitors and patriots, and that we already know what side we are on.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

The Enemy Within...

...HILLARY RODHAM...

...is now running for President in a -Time of War- when she knows that she can bypass the Votes of our Hero Military, Police and Fire Protectors and WIN...

...as the 1st Woman President in American History in a new "Century of the Woman" Campaign.

...Particularly with a Woman V-P 2004 Running Mate that can also pull in Hispanic Votes =

California Congresswoman LORETTA SANCHEZ (D)...

...who told us in 1997 that she returned a $1,000 China Army Money Contribution to the Chinese Communists, when she really didn't.

The Enemy has always been Within.

[SJackson]

ImpBill: The real reason was that many more millions of Americans bought into the crap and stabbed those of us who served, faithfully, in the back….

cinFLA: After years and years they were tired of seeing body bags and the maimed coming back WITHOUT seeing a real desire from our government to decisively win the conflict.

risk, thanks for the ping. ImpBill are cinFLA are both right. It’s a matter of leadership. GWB’s job is provide our troops on the ground with the support (which might be significant) they need to eradicate Sadaam and his assorted arab friends, and to sell his policy to the the country. If he does, I don’t think we’ll be taking casualties in four years.

[risk]

Agreed, but it's important to remember that on the day the Berlin wall fell, every one of those body bags became worth the sadness and regret for the Vietnam war, as well as our mistakes of undercommitment.

Sometimes one has to fight for a while without seeing positive results, whether it be due to internal conflict over how best to fight, or the fact that we face an enemy of overwhelming numbers driven by mad ideologies.

But fight we must, no matter how hopeless it may seem. I hope this time we can count on president Bush and the Republican congress to come through with an unrestrained commitment to victory. I'm worried because at the moment, it seems far too restrained -- much like it was in 1968.

Your words are encouraging, in any case!

[cinFLA]

I hope this time we can count on president Bush and the Republican congress to come through with an unrestrained commitment to victory. I'm worried because at the moment, it seems far too restrained -- much like it was in 1968.

It was not constrained when we went into Afganistan. It was not constrained when we went into Iraq!

You are only seeing what the press wants you to see.

Think about it. We have Iraq and Afganistan. More progress have been had in Israel in the last two months than in the previous 40 years. Terrorists have NOT struck us again.

True, they are sniping at us in Iraq but everytime they do, we wipe out dozens of them. We are fighting the terrorists in Iraq rather than having them over here in the US fighting us.

The economy is coming around, slowly.

There are NO major disruptions in ANY of the Islamic states protesting the US.

If anybody had, six months ago, predicted this scenario, he would have been hauled off to the looney bin.

[cousinkoala]

Dear Ronnie , This weekend on Sunday I am meeting with the President of the Vietmnamese Community Association Of Southern Calif. , in Orange County , to see how we can derail Ho Chi Minh Loretta out of office , this through the free U.S. electoral process at the ballot box .

I will again be introduced to some terrific people in the Vietnamese community , as I was when I helped the leader of the ' Little Siagon Protest ' when I went down there during that exciting time to show them how to carry on their protest legally without getting arrested . I made many friends .

I spent about 1 and 1/2 months with them . I also spoke on their behalf to the Westminster City Hall when they had a meeting requesting approval to put a wooden sheild- bracket arrangement to hold the American and South Vietnamese flag together on lamp-posts along Bolsa Ave .to commemorate the 30 year anniversary of the fall of Siagon .

The first night I was there , I was taken in front of about 20,000 people where I was introduced to thier leader . We held flags with the crowd , they samg , and then it was quiet . In front of about 20,000 people , I proceeded with the help of a Vietnamese translator to show their leader how to hold a legal protest .

I spoke to him in English , the Young people who escorted me up translated for me , I wrote notes for him , he took them , and we exchanged phone numbers . Then the young people I spoke with about my intent before going up , who in the beginning pushed me up through the crowd yelling with the crowd , " Let him through ! Let him through ! " , then escorted me from the front and away . An incredible experience to say the least .

If you would like to be a part of this get together meeting Sunday , you may e-mail to me at : v_of_amercns@lycos.com or to my Freerepublic.com e-mail .

Sincerely Yours , Cousinkoala 7/17/03

[ImpBill]

Interesting, as having lived through the era and having served in combat and having come home to be spit upon, I guess my recolections of the time are a bit different. I guess I also have a bit of a different take on "the government". I always assumed "the government" was a representative form of government "of, for, and by the people". Our representatives, I thought, were elected by the "people". And of course those same representatives have forever stuck their finger in the air to see which way the wind of opinion was flowing.

Again, my reccolections, may be a bit skewed by my personal experiences. Thanks for sharing yours.

[ImpBill]

I sincerely hope you are correct. The only real concern I have is the same concern I had from the beginning of the "liberation of Iraq". That being I am not sure Arabs/Muslims are capable of being liberated. I am not sure the mind set of those people, force fed the "religion of peace", with shovels, since birth are capable of grasping and living under a representative form of democracy. If my understanding of the philosophy these people have developed for thousands of years is even remotely correct there is only one way to deal with them and I am not sure "we" have the ability (mind set) ever to get to that point without having been forced to do so by carnage upon this nation that makes the event of 9/11 seem like a Sunday School picnic.

At any rate, thanks for your input.

[cinFLA]

How was your recollection different from my post you responded to?

"The general population supported the VW for years. After years and years they were tired of seeing body bags and the maimed coming back WITHOUT seeing a real desire from our government to decisively win the conflict."

[ALOHA RONNIE]

..Garden Grove votes Free South Vietnam Flag -IN-, who's next..?

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/863430/posts

[ALOHA RONNIE]

"NEVER FORGET" = ALOHA RONNIE

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/907062/posts

[CIB-173RDABN]

Good reply, I will have to give it some thought.

There one more major difference between then and now, the Internet, and forums like this. During the 1970s we were at the mercy of the major media. I truly thought I was alone in the way I thought and felt, there was no easy way to communicate and organize like minded people.

The will have a much harder time lying about what is going on.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

-Internet
-National Conservative Talk Radio
-FoX News Channel

...if only we had them to fight WALTER CRONKITE and his Friends HO CHI MINH, HILLARY RODHAM, BILL CLINTON and JOHN F. KERRY with upon our Return from the Fight for FREEDOM in a once Free South Vietnam there would have been...

FREEDOM's Victory over Communism
No BILL CLINTON, President of U.S.
No HILLARY RODHAM, Pres Candidate
No JOHN F. KERRY, Pres Candidate
No WALTER CRONKITE, HILLARY Shrill
No HO CHI MINH, Terrorist Victor


The Enemy is now Within...
and always has been.

[ALOHA RONNIE]

NEVER FORGET


...Since HILLARY & BILL CLINTON refused 3 Offers during the 1990's to extradite our Terrorist Enemy No. 1 OSAMA bin LADEN to an American Trial that would have prevented the Attacks on us on Septemer 11, 2001...

...now in a new -Time of War- with our very own FREEDOM at stake:


.."IS it SAFE?" = HILLARY on Senate Armed Services Committee..

http://www.TheAlamoFILM.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=629


NEVER FORGET

[ALOHA RONNIE]

...HILLARY & BILL CLINTON, and their TV Talking Head Minions, have told us over and over again that they were not soft on Terrorism during the 1990's...

...when they WERE.

...Now, WHO's the real LIAR here...?

[Alamo-Girl]

Bump!

[ImpBill]

I guess as a serviceman I just never witnessed much support from the "general public". But like I said, perhaps we just saw things diffetently.