Hydrogen cars hold expensive surprises

The Globe and Mail ^ | Friday, Jul. 18, 2003 | STEPHEN STRAUSS

[Flying Circus]

I hate to make you look stupid, but for every molecule of oxygen released in the production of hydrogen, there will be one consumed when the hydrogen is burnt. Thus, unless you are planning to store gargantuan tanks of hydrogen, you won't be seeing any appreciable increase in atmospheric oxygen.

[chuckles]

"....Thus, unless you are planning to store gargantuan tanks of hydrogen....."

How else are you going to store the gargantuan amounts of hydrogen it would take to fuel the US if not in gargantuan tanks? I may be stupid, but I'm smarter than you!

[Elliott Jackalope]

That is, IMHO, the wave of the future. Neighborhoods will have their own power generators, each block will have a box about the size of a refrigerator that generates power for the local neighborhood. These generators will be powered by natural gas, which they will burn in fuel cells to create electricity. All of these generators would be plugged into the power grid, and power will be distributed as needed through local switching directed by central controllers.

The end result is that you will have gotten rid of %99 of transmission losses, and pollution is distributed and minimized. No more giant power plants, no more NIMBY resistance to those power plants being constructed, the permit process goes from a million page process down to about what you have to do to put in a traffic light controller.

Small can be beautiful. As far as hydrogen cars, forget it. Hybrids will be the wave of the future. Within ten years there will be hybrid sports cars, SUV 4x4's, pickup trucks, you name it, and they will run circles around the conventional vehicles of today. The future belongs to hybrids, not to hydrogen IMHO.

[Flying Circus]

If we were to store as much energy in Hydrogen fuel as we currently store petrol fuel I suspect we would still not make 1/10 of 1% difference in the molar fraction of oxygen in the atmosphere. The idea of keeping enough hydrogen stored to significantly affect the atmospheric concentration of oxygen is ludicrous to say the least.

[PeaceBeWithYou]

Neighborhoods will have their own power generators, each block will have a box about the size of a refrigerator that generates power for the local neighborhood. These generators will be powered by natural gas, which they will burn in fuel cells to create electricity. All of these generators would be plugged into the power grid, and power will be distributed as needed through local switching directed by central controllers.

No fuel cell is needed, this is already doable, and being done(over 4 million operating hours since 1998) with the Capstone Microturbines I linked to in my post #46.

A microturbine is a compact turbine generator that delivers electricity close to the point where it is needed. Operating on a variety of gaseous and liquid fuels, this form of distributed generation technology made its commercial debut in 1998.

Microturbines can serve as primary, emergency backup, or standby power; add capacity and reduce grid consumption bottlenecks simultaneously; and deliver energy cost savings while supplying clean, reliable power with low maintenance needs.

About the size of a refrigerator, each Capstone MicroTurbine unit generates 30 to 60 kilowatts of electricity, enough to power a small business. Maximum thermal efficiencies can be achieved when the exhaust is used in a combined heat and power, or cogeneration, application. With its flexible design, generation capacity is unlimited when running in parallel to the electric grid -- up to 1.2 megawatts of electricity, coupled independent of the grid.

Like a jet engine, the Capstone MicroTurbine mixes fuel with air to create combustion. This combustion turns a magnet generator, compressor and turbine wheels on a revolutionary single shaft, air bearing design at high speed with no need for additional lubricants, oils or coolants. The result is a highly efficient, reliable, clean combustion generator with very low NOx emissions that, unlike diesel generators, can operate around the clock without restrictions. And, unlike combined cycle gas turbines, these power systems use no water.

This watershed 21st century energy management solution is at work now, in a diverse range of industrial, commercial and government applications and geographic environments.

30 or 60KW in a refrigerator sized unit, scalable to 1.2 MW. A bank of these, or more, would power most any substation, mall, or neighborhood.