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Unpatriotic Conservatives -- A war against America. MANDATORY READ -- DETAILS PALEOCONSERVATIVES
National Review On-Line ^ | March 19, 2003 | David Frum

Posted on 07/24/2003 11:10:24 AM PDT by PhiKapMom

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To: My2Cents
My point is that his opinions cannot be denegrated because he comes from Canada.

And my point is that it is the height of haughty self absorbed arrogance for a recent citzen to think himself in postion to so heavy handedly redefine both conservatism and patriotism.

Again, it's a style/class (or lack of) thing with Frum.
261 posted on 07/25/2003 9:47:58 AM PDT by mr.pink
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To: My2Cents
Novak does not pretend to be a profound intellectual. He is a newsman and journalist, with a very good reputation for integrity. And while I sometimes disagree with him, I have never heard him set out to smear other Conservatives, or anyone else for that matter.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

262 posted on 07/25/2003 10:15:14 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Ohioan
I have never heard him set out to smear other Conservatives, or anyone else for that matter.

Read Frum's own comments about his leaving the White House. He said Novak smeared him. Just because you may agree with the "smear" doesn't mean it was true.

263 posted on 07/25/2003 10:36:59 AM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: hchutch
I'm pretty sure that might be the case for some "South Park Republicans", but the majority of them would tend to find a better thing to do on election day than vote.
Not if the statists among the cultural conservatives begin to get anti-pop culture laws and regulations implemented...or even seriously discussed. That's a big part of what happened in 1992. Bush the Elder tried to appease those people because of the Buchanan challenge. It backfired so badly that even a ticket that contained Tipper Gore's husband (I was sure that was a huge tactical error) was able to attract many of the former "Reagan Kids", not to mention their younger siblings.

-Eric

264 posted on 07/25/2003 10:40:57 AM PDT by E Rocc (Truth is to liberals like garlic is to vampires)
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To: E Rocc
I agree to an extent.

That is probably what could push them to a Dem if need be, but there's a lot of them that would stay home as well.
265 posted on 07/25/2003 11:03:27 AM PDT by hchutch (The National League needs to adopt the designated hitter rule.)
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To: My2Cents
Read Frum's own comments about his leaving the White House. He said Novak smeared him. Just because you may agree with the "smear" doesn't mean it was true.

I have gone back over the posted Frum essay, and cannot find the reference you make. Perhaps I skimmed it too fast, but I do not recall seeing it the first time over, either.

Frum is a propagandist--I do not know what Novak saw him as, but he (Frum) is a propagandist, not an analyst. The sole function of the long essay is to lump those who dissent from current American foreign policy, for the purpose of discrediting their credentials. But he does this by innuendo and a very, very selective citation of incidents, in their respective careers, which taken out of context, fit the pattern, he claims to be finding. What is significant, is that he does not really answer their arguments.

Now, I do not know whether each of those being aspersed by Frum has actually chosen to label himself. a "paleoconservative." (In my opinion, it is a foolish, misleading term; at best, totally redundant, but more likely tending to mislead, and play into the hands of the Left.) I suspect otherwise, but must confess that I have read very little, if anything, from most of them. Frankly, some of them may be off-the-wall on some issues. On the other hand, many of the stands that Frum has attacked them over, are perfectly consistent with the mainstream Conservatism of America. Whether they have crossed a bad judgment line, at some time, in their writings I have no way of knowing, and frankly do not care. Frum's examples tell me nothing that would support his innuendo.

Conservatism is not a movement, like the Young Socialist League, or the Hitler Youth, or any of the indoctrinating mechanisms used by the hard core Left over the past 100 years. It is more attitude and affection than doctrine. Yet most of us do share a great body of beliefs in common. And when one, who pretends to be on our general side, seeks to vilify those who share that atttitude and the affections that go with it, we have something that needs to be recognized.

Trying to preserve and protect the values that made America the envy of the World has been a difficult task for true Conservatives, at all times in our history. There are always those with an axe to grind; always politicians with self-serving ambitions; always special interests, that want corners cut for their particular interest. That is reality--obvious reality. It comes with the growing complexity of a political society.

Given the obvious, it remains also obvious, that not all Conservatives will agree with the same set of priorities at any moment in time. Not all will even agree as to what is truly the Conservative position, on any particular issue. Those, too, are obvious givens. What possible legitimate reason, then, would any "Conservative" want to try to discredit the patriotism of other Conservatives, just because he disagreed with them on a particular issue?

Frum had only one purpose in writing this piece of propaganda, and it was an unworthy purpose. It was also a highly impertinent purpose, as he is only here because the heirs of Americans who built this country allowed him to enter and take part in our debates. A gentleman, under those circumstances, would be a bit more temperate in his characterizations of the native born spokesmen for long-standing American values.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

266 posted on 07/25/2003 2:08:56 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Ohioan
I have gone back over the posted Frum essay,

Apologies. It's not in the posted article. It's in his book, THE RIGHT MAN, toward the end. Pretty thorough discussion about the whole thing regarding his departure from the White House. He admits that some in the WH staff gave him the cold shoulder after his wife sent out the email identifying Frum as the source of the "Axis of Evil" line, but he said it had nothing to do with his leaving the White House. He had intended to leave before the SOTU, but wanted to see that through, at least. The decision to leave was made before his wife's email flap. Novak spun it as THE reason he left, and Frum mentions this.

267 posted on 07/25/2003 2:18:48 PM PDT by My2Cents ("Well....there you go again.")
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To: sheltonmac
Excellent job.
268 posted on 07/25/2003 8:25:56 PM PDT by Barry Goldwater (Give generously and often to the Bush campaign)
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To: hchutch
There needs to be some thinking done by conservatives, followed by some house-cleaning. Frum pretty much was on target here. I guess that is why some "conservatives" are howling so loudly...

Yup. The South Park Minicons need to get on with the business of Purging the Movement- get in touch with the Inner Trotskyite and stamp out improper thought. I know they're up to it, chutchy.

Actually I think most paleos are glad to have little to do with the Big Tent of Neocondom- those of us old enough to remember can see how much it resembles the "conservatism" of LBJ- small wonder, since a number of prominent neocons were Johnson-Humphrey liberal Democrats. In fact, one major Neocondom writer does better than that, having been a Mondale speechwriter during the Reagan years. I've yet to see one Neo- or Minicon comment on that curiosity, if they ever noticed it. Yup, the conservatism of Neocondom surely has a magnificent pedigree.

The paleos ought to bid the whole Neocondom enterprise adieu, and let it suppurate in its invective all by itself. With the paleos gone, there'll be no need to use the prefix Neo anymore, and the Neocondom Big Tent can shorten its name to better fit its true nature.

269 posted on 07/25/2003 10:59:33 PM PDT by Pelham
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To: Pelham
bump
270 posted on 07/29/2003 7:21:01 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: sarasmom; windchime; Ragtime Cowgirl; DakotaGator; SoDak; 4integrity
Ping a ling.
271 posted on 08/03/2003 3:45:38 PM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: Constitution Day
bump and save
272 posted on 08/03/2003 3:48:59 PM PDT by krunkygirl
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To: floriduh voter
Thanks, FV.
273 posted on 08/03/2003 7:58:06 PM PDT by windchime
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To: windchime
You're welcome. I think I'll bookmark this thread. Between the dem pity party and the Bush bashing conservatives harping away, this is good ammo. If they don't like our agenda which is largely to work at the grassroots level for the GOP, they should simply start a Bush bashing chapter and leave the rest of us alone because the majority of us here have work to do for the GOP.

The democrats are the mean spirited, left wing opponent. The country's through if we drift back to the left. We are still fixing years of democrat control. If the left gets back in power, I'll be making a safe room in my house until the jack booted thugs come for me.

274 posted on 08/04/2003 8:18:30 AM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: jpsb
Ping.
275 posted on 08/04/2003 8:27:34 AM PDT by floriduh voter (http://www.conservative-spirit.org/)
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To: Captain Kennit
Thanks for the bump. I've seen and replied on this commentary before.
The neocons see only enemies to be purged to the right of David Frum. His arguments are accordingly formulated, polemical and non-sequitor. They have been answered effectively by many writers but the responses will have no effect as the man is basically dishonest in my opinion.
Regards.
276 posted on 08/04/2003 1:18:56 PM PDT by The Irishman
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To: PhiKapMom
bump to read later and finally figger out what paleoconservatives are...
277 posted on 08/04/2003 1:23:29 PM PDT by eyespysomething
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