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Your shout : Women and men divided over images (of Uday & Qusay)
The Telegraph (U.K.) ^ | 07/26/03 | Andrew Gimson

Posted on 07/25/2003 5:23:32 PM PDT by Pokey78

Women condemned the publication of photographs of Saddam Hussein's dead sons yesterday, while men supported it.

Speaking in the cafe of the Imperial War Museum in London, Kate Dodsworth said of the pictures: "I think they're quite shocking, almost titillating photographs.

"I do understand that in Iraq people may need to see the images to understand that two perpetrators of the regime have gone, but I don't believe that in this country people need to see the photos to believe that they're gone. So for us I think it's just grotesque photos which don't need to be published at all."

But Miss Dodsworth's father, Edward, who was visiting London from Malvern for her graduation ceremony, said it was necessary to demonstrate that the two men were dead and publication of the photographs was the least bad way to do it.

"You can hardly hang the bodies from a gibbet. The pictures are pretty ghastly but I don't have a problem with that. I was a soldier for a time," he said.

Two women who had brought a total of five children to see the museum were incensed by the photographs. One, a teacher, recoiled at the sight of the two dead men on the front page of yesterday's Telegraph and said: "That is disgraceful. Is that the front page? That makes it even worse. Children walking past in the street could see it. For the Americans to publish the pictures is appalling as well. It's making people less sensitive."

The other woman, a housewife from Buckinghamshire, said: "You don't need to see that. It's enough to tell the world they're dead. It's totally unnecessary. I think journalists have gone too far nowadays. It's all about money as usual."

But Chuck Aleshire, 47, visiting the museum from Chicago, said he definitely supported publication, as otherwise rumours would start that Saddam's sons were still alive. When it was put to Mr Aleshire that despite the photographs, rumours had started in Iraq that the men are still alive, he said: "If they're unwilling to accept that Saddam Hussein's sons are dead, there's no amount of proof that will satisfy them. They could be dragged through the streets of Baghdad and people still wouldn't believe it."

Mr Aleshire was undeterred by the gruesome appearance of the photographs: "After 9/11 they look a whole lot less horrific. I think our frame of reference changed completely on September 11. Seeing it live on television." Mr Aleshire's friend Bill Vandermyde, 46, also from Chicago, said they had been astonished by the way Tony Blair is seen in London: "We've tried to toast Tony Blair several times in this town, and nobody seemed to take too warmly to it. God bless Tony Blair and Her Majesty's forces."

Dr Karen Rogstad, from Derbyshire, was upset by the photographs: "I was concerned about my children. This morning they picked up the paper and saw the faces of the dead men and I was concerned that it was very distressing for the children, and also - as I pointed out to them - those men were someone else's family."

But Dr Rogstad's son Luke, who gave his age as "nearly 12", smiled and shook his head when his mother suggested he might have been upset.

Luke did, however, describe the photographs as "a bit disgusting - it's not really what people want to see first thing in the morning".

Dr Rogstad's daughter Annabelle, nine, said she too had not been upset by the photographs, but she suggested that it might have been better just to broadcast the news of the two men's deaths on the radio "and then people wouldn't have to see it".

Oscar Iorio, 46, who was visiting London from Holland, where he exports fruit and vegetables, and who has an Italian father and a German mother, said it was right to publish the photographs.

He said: "First of all I was shocked by the images, which reminded me of the picture of Mussolini when he was killed in 1945 and trampled by the masses and afterwards hung by the feet from a petrol station and all the blood went to his face. The face of the bearded guy reminded me very much of it. It's a horrific sight to see, but it's part of our reality."


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; United Kingdom; War on Terror
KEYWORDS: photos; qusay; rebuildiraq; uday; worldopinion
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1 posted on 07/25/2003 5:23:33 PM PDT by Pokey78
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To: Pokey78
For the Americans to publish the pictures is appalling as well.

The Americans didn't publish them. The press did. Take it up with the media, lady.

2 posted on 07/25/2003 5:27:50 PM PDT by tsmith130
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To: Pokey78
"You can hardly hang the bodies from a gibbet....

Two possible responses:

1. Why not?
- or -
2. You're absolutely right. Don't hang their bodies from a gibbet - put their HEADS ON PIKES.

3 posted on 07/25/2003 5:27:53 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (...and Freedom tastes of Reality.)
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To: headsonpikes
The honour of your presence is requested.
4 posted on 07/25/2003 5:29:56 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (...and Freedom tastes of Reality.)
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To: Pokey78
"...those men were someone else's family."

To be accurate, they were Saddam's family, and guilty of crimes against humanity. This woman's compassion is misplaced.

5 posted on 07/25/2003 5:30:59 PM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Lurking since 2000.)
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To: DuncanWaring
Some muslim CAIR types are making the picture showing as bad as heads on pikes.More of "the muslims always treat the dead with respect"complaint.(yeah,right)
6 posted on 07/25/2003 5:32:10 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Pokey78
The Brits are squeamish about such things. But to call the photos "titillating" is a bit curious. Methinks Ms. Kate must get her kicks in strange ways.
7 posted on 07/25/2003 5:32:54 PM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: MEG33
"More of "the muslims always treat the dead with respect"complaint.(yeah,right)"

They may respect the dead - but they certainly relish the act of killing. Their record goes back centuries!!

It's time that they woke up to reality. They aren't the only ones with an agenda!!

8 posted on 07/25/2003 5:37:34 PM PDT by LADY J
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To: MEG33
Some muslim CAIR types are making the picture showing as bad as heads on pikes.

If they're going to complain like we're doing it, we might as well do it.

If we handed the bodies over to the "Iraqi Ruling Council" or whatever it's called, that's what they'd probably do with them.

9 posted on 07/25/2003 5:37:52 PM PDT by DuncanWaring (...and Freedom tastes of Reality.)
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To: DuncanWaring
These are the American muslims spreading the word.There are many in Iraq who would certainly drag the bodies through the street.
10 posted on 07/25/2003 5:40:43 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Pokey78
I'm usually pretty squemish, but those pictures didn't bother me at all. I just thought about Uday tossing living beings into plastic shredders and the sight of his blown apart face didn't even faze me.
11 posted on 07/25/2003 5:44:27 PM PDT by McGavin999
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To: DuncanWaring
Sometimes a vivid demonstration of the New World Order is needed.

Just kidding! Sometimes a bit of rough justice goes a long way to make the necessary point.

I'm in agreement with a number of posters on these threads who have suggested immediately turning over the corpses to the new Iraqi Council - it's their monsters, after all!

Heads on pikes! Sometimes it's just a metaphor. ;^)
12 posted on 07/25/2003 5:44:45 PM PDT by headsonpikes
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To: Pokey78
Quite a diversity of opinion about these photos. Throughout Arabia they're shocking; in Britain, they're titillating?
13 posted on 07/25/2003 5:45:09 PM PDT by cwb
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To: Pokey78
Women condemned the publication of photographs of Saddam Hussein's dead sons yesterday, while men supported it.

*snort* I'll say this for the above sentence: It's just so hilariously asinine that it coaxed me into reading the rest of the story :)

Seriously now: "women" condemned the publication of the photographs (all women, you see). And "men" supported it, all of them. Got that?

Speaking in the cafe of the Imperial War Museum in London, Kate Dodsworth said ...

Translation: Andrew Gimson was hanging out in this cafe with his laptop, realized he still had a deadline to meet, and used it as an angle to chat up Kate Dodsworth....

Then he spent about 20 minutes asking various other museum-goers for comments to complete the charade. Quotes from five men/boys and five women/girls and there's your article: "women" condemn the photos, "men" support it.

Hilarious!

14 posted on 07/25/2003 5:47:16 PM PDT by Dr. Frank fan
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To: Pokey78
I took a look to see if they were recognizable, decided it was a bad idea to clean them up, and went back to playing solitaire before the broadcast of the bodies ended. What's the big deal?
15 posted on 07/25/2003 5:48:45 PM PDT by MissAmericanPie
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To: LADY J
Respect ..mass graves,dragging our soldier through the street in Somalia,beheading Daniel Pearl and mutilating his body,Iran holding up a charred arm of a dead US downed "rescuer" in the Carter administration,our soldier's body mutilated in this war,a woman who waved at our soldiers killed and displayed on a lamp pole...is that respect for the dead?As far as the dead sons..my mind can't conceive of their murder,torture and depravity.
16 posted on 07/25/2003 5:50:08 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: MEG33
It is ironic that the same muslim arabs that find horror in the publishing of the pictures of these dead monsters have no problem with public dismemberment, even sometimes televised, of so called criminals under provisions of Sharia Law. This includes amputation of hands and heads. So much for the muslim expressions of horror.
17 posted on 07/25/2003 5:56:58 PM PDT by brydic1
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To: brydic1
Right.
18 posted on 07/25/2003 5:58:25 PM PDT by MEG33
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To: Pokey78
Tuesday night, the very day the sons were killed, ABC did an excellent hour-long special on their ghastly lives and lauded our troops.

However, two reporters over in Iraq, one in Baghdad, warned the host, Charles Gibson, that the U.S. needed to prove the deaths to the citizens as there was wide-spread suspicion or fear of accepting that Uday and Qusay were really dead.

The next day the U.S. announced they were considering releasing photos and there wasn't one voice that spoke up saying it ought not be done, except, ironically, ABC's Peter Jennings, who thought it hypocritical that we had decried our war dead being shown on tv.

It appears to me Jennings was first out of the block with the far left talking points. If we had not released photos I have no doubt in my mind that many in our own media would do their own stirring the pot of suspicion over the actual identities of the bodies. Some even ventured there at first release of the photos yesterday.

We did the right thing.
19 posted on 07/25/2003 5:58:56 PM PDT by cyncooper
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To: MissAmericanPie
What's the big deal?

Some lefties are trying to use this as yet another issue to bash the administration over. That's all.

20 posted on 07/25/2003 6:01:08 PM PDT by cyncooper
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