[Paul Atreides]

As long as schools have diversity, what need is there for learning? /sarcasm

[genefromjersey]

Eye opening !

[rockprof]

Go to any large college and look at the graduate departments in engineering, math, and sciences. At least half of the students will be foreign (I'm speaking from experience having spent a fair amount of time in several colleges and universities).

I also teach science at a two-year college. Virtually none of my students (high school graduates all) have any competency in even simple grade-school mathematics.

My wife and I are planning to homeschool are children (currently toddlers).

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

The dumbing down of American education I don't deny, but two demographic trends are also potent.

First, the people who are in America are only those who were able to--and especially among Asians there has been a systematic tendency that the dumb ones couldn't get here. So the ones that are here are disproportionately professionals.

And another issue is the fact that post-secondary education is now practically the norm in America--even among groups which do not hold education up as a primary cultural value. I doubt that remedial English/Math would exist outside that context.

The article notes that there are an awful lot of people in Asia; when empowered by the Internet and cheap PCs the top 0.01% of their IQ bell curve inevitably constitutes a force to be reckoned with. What reason is there to suppose that American secondary education as we know it can in the long run withstand competition from the top 0.1% of Asia's bell curve acting through the Internet?

[wideminded]

I think that a lot of the problem with American education is due to the fact that in America there is little respect for learning. In American high schools the student who excels in mathematics or science is a "nerd". The depiction in movies or on TV of a young person succeeding academically is exceeedingly rare. Only athletic accomplishments are glorified. I saw a display case in a high school a few years ago that was permanently devoted to the accomplishments of students who went into pro sports. There was no corresponding display concerning the students who became doctors, scientists, and engineers. The groups that seem to produce the most scientific talent are the same ones that have the highest respect for learning and academic achievement.

[dilpo]

Some US kids CAN add. But they get nowhere in the math field cause of the way our graduate programs are run.

My son graduated Phi Beta Kappa from a top 10 university with both a masters and bachelors degree in theoretical (pure) math, with almost a 4.0 average. He took only very tough academic courses in math and the sciences. He got straight 800's on the GRE (perfect scores). He wanted to get a Ph.D. from a top math school.

His applications to MIT and Berkeley were rejected. Both schools admit almost only foreign students to their math Ph.D. programs. He went to Columbia.

He was one of only two US students entering the math Ph.D. program that year. There were two Russians, two Koreans, two Chinese and one Australian. After the first year the other US student had dropped out.

My son got a second masters. But when he went to take his pre dissertation examination he could not get three faculty members to show up to examine him. They just didn't care. After a year he got burned out and quit. He is now about to graduate from a top five law school and has done quite well there.

US universities have no interest in educating US citizens in mathematics. The way he was treated was extraordinarily shabby. So instead of a top mathemetician which we could use we get another lawyer.

[Young Werther]

This year I submiited a legislative proposal to the Texas Committee for Higher Education. I proposed that action begin to motivate our children to study Math and Science by converting the International Space Station, upon completion, into the premier 21st Century Institute for Higher Learning. Convert it into a Space University and fly students into space to study. Not since 1957 and the adventures of Homer Hickam of "October Sky" fame has space offered the opportunity of a generation.

I subsitute teach and when I ask "Would you like to fly and study in SPACE" the Yeahs! are screamed! It's unfortunate that budget deficits at the state level negate this plan. All to often we see the "dumbing down", (post regarding SAT analogy portion of test), rather than the creative thinking!

[sourcery]

They're professionally hungry. We no longer are.

Bingo. That's the root of the problem: a socioculturally-driven devolution of the character of the American people. That's the fundamental process at work, as opposed to immigration, H1B visas, outsourcing, etc. Those things are all effects, not causes.

[txzman]

Welcome to the world of New Math. Here in North Texas our children now get to "write" about their mathematical experiences in elementary and middle school.

Never mind that they don't know their 12 x 12 multiplication tables. Or how to do long division.

But they sure know how to write mis-spelled paragraphs telling you how hard it was to try.

[Ruth A.]

A while back another poster jumped on me for saying that a glut of engineers would have a part in their unemployment (and he also claimed that engineers from other countries were not as good as home-bred engineers). It seems as though you have found where the jobs are: research. At the very least, you point out that home-bred researchers (etc.) may not be as competitive in the job market. Food for thought.

[JoeSchem]

I think we need to have a little perspective here.

First, America is only 4% of the planetary population. That means that 96% of the world's geniuses are born outside our borders. Our universities are the best in the world, so why is it so surprising that intelligent foreigners are crowding out Americans?

Second, American laws price American workers out of the global market. If a business offers an American call-center specialist $13/hr, it really must pay something like $20 an hour in taxes and bureaucratically-mandated overhead. Whereas, $13/hr is $13/hr for a call-center specialist in India.

I would advise parents not to train your children to become engineers, because they'll be competing with a world full of engineers. The same with computer programmers (maybe more so). What should your children go into? Well, they can become lawyers. The Bar Associations of the US will never allow remote-TV connections with outsourced legal teams in New Dehli.

I'm being cynical, but I suspect I'm also being dead-on accurate about the future.

[boothead]

Gisli Hjalmstysson, Nikos Anerousis, Pawan Goyal, K. K. Ramakrishnan, Jennifer Rexford, Kobus Van der Merwe, and Sneha Kumar Kasera

Never seen an Irishman yet who could add. These are Irish aren't they???????????

[jawz]

I am working on my Master's in Special Education. One of my fellow students insists students don't need to learn long division anymore b/c they can learn to use calculators.

sigh...

[leprechaun9]

As a resident of the community where Bell Labs was (is?) headquartered, and following the results of the statewide assessment test that are given to all PUBLIC SCHOOL fourth, eighth and eleventh graders from their beginning, this article is only another bit of the harvest of UNITED STATES PUBLIC EDUCATION that has taken root and been fertilized with the social engineers in the state Department of Education!

Here is one example:
All fourth graders are tested (oops, I mean assessed) in Language Arts, Mathematics and Science. The results are grouped into three levels: I, II, and III with I being the best. I wanted to find out how many students are in Level I for the three skills. In 1991, there were 1308 PUBLIC SCHOOLS with a fourth grade.

Across the entire state, including all the "rich suburbs", there was only ONE school that had more than 10% of their students in Level I for the three skills. Our community has three schools and their results were 7%, 4%, and 2%!

Statewide there are more than 1100 SCHOOLS with ZERO% of their students in Level I for the three skills and this includes some of the wealthiest communities in the state!

Another example:
The grade eleven evaluation is called the High School Proficiency Assessment (we can't call it a test because that might leave a stigma on a student who didn't perform very well!) This evaluation is given in the second month of grade eleven. This is the test which all PUBLIC SCHOOL students must pass in order to graduate from high school.

This means, that at best, the test is a GRADE 10 measure.So the State of New Jersey is certifying that all high school graduates are at least at a GRADE 10 level.

Is this the level of academic excellence that our country needs for the future? What do you think?