Why FREE TRADE was never the answer.

self | 7/28/03 | RaceBannon

[Krafty123]

Wrong, it will take a year or two at the least too build new fabs. AMD (fabs in Austin & Dresden, as well as outsourcing to IBM) will get all their business in the meantime. Nobody has the excess capacity to pick up the slack.

[lelio]

He says they can't find people who want to go into the skilled trades anymore.

I'm curious: is it that he can't find people that are skilled machinists at $5/hr or at any price? Not knocking you, but I'm always leary when people say that they can't find anyone. There's always going to be a shortage -- at the price you're willing to pay.

[hedgetrimmer]

By the way, howzit feel to have won the argument and swayed me to your guys' side?

What was your ephiphany? Maybe it will work on someone else :-)

[StolarStorm]

"It was observed on another thread that ONLY people who have capital will prosper in a country in which labor is meaningless and devalued. " Which may be the goal, getting rid of the pesky middle class. The re-establishment of an aristocracy in America is well underway.

[hedgetrimmer]

it will take a year or two at the least too build new fabs

Which shows that even with government guarantees, outsourcing to communist countries is a bad idea all around.

[harpseal]

My point is that the decions to put fabrication plants in China was a decision that had some inherent risks . A portion of those risks are picked up by the US taxpayer. if the fabrication plant in China is nationalized then Intel is indemnified financially by the US taxpayer. As ro where more chips will be produced? Who knows? By the time there is such nationalization there may no longer be those fabs in Austin and Dresden and IBM may have moved its facilities to China also so they can compete.

[Alberta's Child]

Tell me in what "one respect [it] borders on the absurd"?

In the exact sense that I described. People in the IT industry were doing extremely well throughout the 1990s. New technology being developed. New capacity being built. New companies being started by the hour.

Now that all that new technology, that new capacity, and those new companies are in place, there is no reason to be surprised when they are put to use.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

If the shareholders knew half of what is cooked in the books of a corporation they would never okay anything, but a great deal is hidden from them by clever accountants. Just the so-called lobbying, which is just a bribe, is one example.
Here are a just a few links from respected sources on these issues. Perhaps they will prove enlightening:
(the visa racket)
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/phyllisschlafly/ps20030602.shtml
(Kissinger - the national security risks)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/947266/posts
(William Hawkins - the national security risks)
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-hawkins062503.asp
(another national security risk)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/922087/posts
(an example of how OPIC and Ex-Im use our tax money as foreign aid - offshoring)
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=26159
(Steve Farrell on "free" trade with China)
http://www.newsmax.com/commentarchive.shtml?a=2000/9/13/082713
(Paul Craig Roberts on Globalism and Adam Smith)
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulcraigroberts/pcr20030212.shtml
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/paulcraigroberts/pcr20030305.shtml
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/945266/posts
(illegals)
http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-immigration29jul20215420,1,7044553.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine-manual
http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2003/07/07/asparks.DTL
http://www.fairus.org/html/04105611.htm
http://www.fairus.org/html/04165904.htm

[Alberta's Child]

If the shareholders knew half of what is cooked in the books of a corporation they would never okay anything . . .

I agree with you. Which is why 95% of the people who are invested in the stock market today have no freakin' business being there.

[RaceBannon]

I didnt take it personal!

Buy ya a coffee? (When I get work?)

[Lazamataz]

Buy ya a coffee? (When I get work?)

I'm sorry; I simply cannot wait that long.

[RaceBannon]

But remember something, that $400,000 house, not sold for the original price, will sell for much less...meaning a maor loss for the original buyer!

I dont remember the term for that, but it means a loss of equity, a loss of savings, and a serious loss of property value, meaning you just lost your shirt due to the loss of the re-sale value of your house.

[RaceBannon]

Sorry Laz, but when someone calls me a Commie, it is time to bring out he nukes.

[RaceBannon]

Sorry Laz, but when someone calls me a Commie, it is time to bring out the nukes.

[malakhi]

'm curious: is it that he can't find people that are skilled machinists at $5/hr or at any price? Not knocking you, but I'm always leary when people say that they can't find anyone. There's always going to be a shortage -- at the price you're willing to pay.

The problem is not wages (these guys make good money), its a perception problem for the blue-collar trades. The problem is recruiting the next generation of workers. As underbyte pointed out, the kids of these skilled tradesmen went to college and don't want to do the jobs their fathers did.

[Lazamataz]

Sorry Laz, but when someone calls me a Commie, it is time to bring out the nukes.

Then buy me coffee in a few years when you get a job. ;^)

[Jason_b]

From today's dailyreckoning.com
I think it is relevant because the trade situation cannot be divorced from the currency situation.

---

For an entire generation, Americans have been the happy beneficiaries of a unique monetary system...in which the world's bussers and schleppers took American dollar bills in return for their work. The more dollars we exported...the more they bussed and schlepped to get them.

It was a little like the discovery of gold in America by the Spanish in the 16th century. All of a sudden, the Spaniards were the richest people in the world - for they had the world's money!

Money came in from the New World; it was as if the Spanish had a printing press in the basement and could print up as many dollars as they wanted. Even the word 'dollar' comes from that period, as Spanish money was known the world over. As the money supply increased in Spain, the first effect was inflation. Prices rose. But the second effect was the one that hurt. Rather than develop their own economy, the Spanish exported their dollars in exchange for the goods they wanted.

The Spanish thought they were rich. And, for a while, they lived rich. They were the 'world's mouth,' the leading consumers of the 16th century.

But soon the money ran out. And its overseas adventures became cost-centers, rather than sources of booty. And then the Spanish discovered something important: the easy money had been a curse; it deprived Spain of the development needed to become a prosperous country.

After the Spanish Armada was defeated by the English in 1588, Spain fell into a slump. It was the 'sick man of Europe' for the next 4 centuries.

And now it is America that is cursed by good fortune. It has become 'the world's mouth.'



As long as it has a printing press in its basement, Americans believe, they will never go hungry.

We will see, dear reader; we will see.

Over to you, Eric...

---

[lelio]

Out of curiosity, what swayed you?
[ Laz ] Outsourcing of whitecollar jobs on a grand scale.

Same here. I've always been a little leary about the idea that trading with a communist or slave state will turn them to our side. It hasn't worked in the past here in our country, nor has it worked in South America. And Reagan didn't defeat the Soviets by building a factory over there.

But the thing that recently made me really take this to heart was a radio show that mentioned a Pat Buchanon book, summerizing my thoughts: what seperates us from the aristocracy in Europe? The middle class. How did that come about? By having Americans build and consume their own goods. How is the middle class going to go down in flames? By sending things overseas.

And I also agree with Laz: Pat and Ross Perot aren't very user friendly. It just gives more ammo to the likes of Rush Limbaugh to joke about "That sucking sound" when it is actually occuring.

[underbyte]

This is probably some kind of natural economic evolution as economies mature.

However our Blue collar workforce and the companies they work for are under ever increasing labor/price competition pressure to reduce costs. Can a US Blue collar worker work for $1.00 an Hr. ?
He would make more panhandling on the street.

I believe that with the white collar guys jobs being outsourced you may get some political activity on trade at the grass roots level. Some minor hope there.

[underbyte]

Man o man I am getting depressed. Trade is down the toilet, Socialists have nearly complete control over the educational system, Progressive Democrats(socialists) are entrenched throughout our goverment, Social security is bankrupt, Company pensions are underfunded.

Republicans control the house, senate and Oval office and are spending as much money as they can(They lack the will to cut spending) They can not get a judicial nominee through the senate so we have socialists legislating from the bench. The National debate has become trivalized with homocentric gay TV shows,gay schools, gay marriage, for all about 3% of the POP. which Most people do not give a damn about either way. Illegal aliens are swamping our borders, Politcal correctness abounds, federal and state taxes are out of control, The world hates us, we are at war, The barbarians are ate the gate. It is too stressful, I think I may move to Singapore before the collapse.