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Ethnic Intimidation - PA Bill 1493 Passed 12/02
The PA House of Representatives web page ^
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Posted on 07/30/2003 3:39:03 AM PDT by bets
The PA Bill passed Dec 2002:
*** ETHNIC INTIMIDATION ***
An Act amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes, further providing for ethnic intimidation.
Signed in House, Nov. 26, 2002
Signed in Senate, Nov. 26, 2002
In hands of the Governor, Dec. 2, 2002
Last day for action, Dec. 30, 2002
Approved by the Governor, Dec. 3, 2002
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY OF PENNSYLVANIA
HOUSE BILL
No. 1493 Session of 2001
INTRODUCED BY L. I. COHEN, CALTAGIRONE, CAPPABIANCA, GRUCELA, HARHAI, HORSEY, JAMES, KIRKLAND, LAUGHLIN, McILHINNEY, PRESTON, ROSS, SHANER, J. TAYLOR, TIGUE, WALKO, YOUNGBLOOD, C. WILLIAMS, FRANKEL, JOSEPHS, STETLER, LEDERER, MANDERINO, CORNELL, BISHOP, BUXTON, BROWNE, NICKOL, ROEBUCK, OLIVER, M. COHEN, D. EVANS, THOMAS, WATERS, BOYES, VEON, ROONEY, BEBKO- JONES, FREEMAN, MUNDY, MANN, WASHINGTON, ROBINSON, G. WRIGHT, PALLONE, J. WILLIAMS, McGILL, CURRY, SANTONI, BELFANTI, TRICH, DALEY AND DIVEN, MAY 2, 2001
AS AMENDED ON THIRD CONSIDERATION, IN SENATE, JUNE 21, 2001
AN ACT
1 Amending Title 18 (Crimes and Offenses) of the Pennsylvania
2 Consolidated Statutes, further providing for ETHNIC
5 INTIMIDATION.
6 The General Assembly of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania
7 hereby enacts as follows:
8 Section 1. Section 2710 of Title 18 of the <--
9 Pennsylvania Consolidated Statutes is amended to read:
23 § 2710. ETHNIC INTIMIDATION. <--
24 (A) OFFENSE DEFINED.--A PERSON COMMITS THE OFFENSE OF ETHNIC
25 INTIMIDATION IF, WITH MALICIOUS INTENTION TOWARD THE ACTUAL OR
26 PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION [OR], NATIONAL ORIGIN, ANCESTRY,
27 MENTAL OR PHYSICAL DISABILITY, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER OR
28 GENDER IDENTITY OF ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS,
29 HE COMMITS AN OFFENSE UNDER ANY OTHER PROVISION OF THIS ARTICLE
30 OR UNDER CHAPTER 33 (RELATING TO ARSON, CRIMINAL MISCHIEF AND
1 OTHER PROPERTY DESTRUCTION) EXCLUSIVE OF SECTION 3307 (RELATING
2 TO INSTITUTIONAL VANDALISM) OR UNDER SECTION 3503 (RELATING TO
3 CRIMINAL TRESPASS) OR UNDER SECTION 5504 (RELATING TO HARASSMENT
4 BY COMMUNICATION OR ADDRESS) WITH RESPECT TO SUCH INDIVIDUAL OR
5 HIS OR HER PROPERTY OR WITH RESPECT TO ONE OR MORE MEMBERS OF
6 SUCH GROUP OR TO THEIR PROPERTY.
7 (B) GRADING.--AN OFFENSE UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL BE
8 CLASSIFIED AS A MISDEMEANOR OF THE THIRD DEGREE IF THE OTHER
9 OFFENSE IS CLASSIFIED AS A SUMMARY OFFENSE. OTHERWISE, AN
10 OFFENSE UNDER THIS SECTION SHALL BE CLASSIFIED ONE DEGREE HIGHER
11 IN THE CLASSIFICATION SPECIFIED IN SECTION 106 (RELATING TO
12 CLASSES OF OFFENSES) THAN THE CLASSIFICATION OF THE OTHER
13 OFFENSE.
14 (C) DEFINITION.--AS USED IN THIS SECTION "MALICIOUS
15 INTENTION" MEANS THE INTENTION TO COMMIT ANY ACT, THE COMMISSION
16 OF WHICH IS A NECESSARY ELEMENT OF ANY OFFENSE REFERRED TO IN
17 SUBSECTION (A) MOTIVATED BY HATRED TOWARD THE ACTUAL OR
18 PERCEIVED RACE, COLOR, RELIGION OR NATIONAL ORIGIN, ANCESTRY,
19 MENTAL OR PHYSICAL DISABILITY, SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER OR
20 GENDER IDENTITY OF ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS.
21 Section 2. This act shall take effect immediately. <--
TOPICS: Government; News/Current Events; US: Pennsylvania
KEYWORDS: christian; diversity; hatecrimes; homosexual; intimidation; thoughtpolice
An excerpt of what Web-Ministry.com said about it before it passed: " IMPACT: Since the bill does not exempt religious organizations, it could silence Pennsylvania pastors and subject those who dare to speak out on issues of human sexuality to lawsuits or worse! Plus, this bill would set a precedent for similar laws in other states!"
This is very important - here we are wagging our heads at the possibility that Canada will pass such a law in the fall, and here in our own republic we've already passed legislation that makes it illegal to preach parts of the Bible from the pulpit. Will it be enforced? In principle, does it matter?
1
posted on
07/30/2003 3:39:03 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
This is very important - here we are wagging our heads at the possibility that Canada will pass such a law in the fall, and here in our own republic we've already passed legislation that makes it illegal to preach parts of the Bible from the pulpit. Will it be enforced? In principle, does it matter? This is unconstitutional and will never be implemented.
2
posted on
07/30/2003 3:44:49 AM PDT
by
bimbo
To: bets
Will it be inforced? Sure, President Hillary's all new and improved Dept. of Homeland Security, Diminishing Freedoms, and Political Retribution will be very interested in enforcing this...for the children...
To: Sunnyvale CA Eng.
Things like this can sit dormant until an opportune time to lower the hammer. Even if it's not currently enforced, it's a time bomb, and it opens the door to other states following.
Know that this came from the pressure of the gay community in Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love.
4
posted on
07/30/2003 3:51:04 AM PDT
by
bets
To: Sunnyvale CA Eng.
"....HARASSMENT BY COMMUNICATION OR ADDRESS...MOTIVATED BY HATRED TOWARD THE ACTUAL OR PERCEIVED...SEXUAL ORIENTATION, GENDER OR GENDER IDENTITY OF ANOTHER INDIVIDUAL OR GROUP OF INDIVIDUALS." A sermon w/scriptures from the Bible on homosexuality would constitute "communication or address," and whether it's out of love or hatred - you and I both know that the liberal left always interprets preaching as hatred (when it can and should be done in love). So, such preaching will be considered intentional hate offenses towards homosexuals, and now it can by law be forbidden.
Is there a fine, jail time? I don't know. Is it Constitutional? - certainly not, and it MUST BE STRUCK DOWN, REVERSED. This can't remain on the books. I'm no longer a resident of PA - all PA Freepers need to consider how to communicate their outrage to their reps.
5
posted on
07/30/2003 4:00:16 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
Being unconstitutional is no longer a sure protection. We must ensure laws like this never get passed, or sure as gay rights they will be foisted on us by a diverse minded SCOTUS. Like the one now that thinks diversity is more important than constitutional guarantees.
6
posted on
07/30/2003 4:23:10 AM PDT
by
Evil Inc
To: bets
I would assume the uttering of the politically incorrect term for whomsoever you happen to be speaking of could put you in violation. In other words saying fag instead of gay or colored instead of black could get you arrested.
To: bets
Just posted this to the PA Board. Not sure how we missed it.
At first I was stunned by this, until I read the names on the bill. Babette Freakin' Josephs, Dwight Evans...
Owl_Eagle
Guns Before Butter.
8
posted on
07/30/2003 4:25:09 AM PDT
by
Owl_Eagle
("Europeans lost the will to live the moral life long ago." - Ben Shapiro)
To: sgtbono2002
Just like all hate crimes, they're trying to legislate thought - differences in words, like you said, and a percepion of "hatred."
What's ironic is that when preached correctly, the Bible creates a LOVE offense, not a HATE offense. So they totally have it backwards. Ain't that the way satan works?... backwards!
9
posted on
07/30/2003 4:32:29 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
A sermon w/scriptures from the Bible on homosexuality would constitute "communication or address," and whether it's out of love or hatred -Well, I think it said "exclusive of" and listed, among other things, the "communication or address." Because otherwise, freedom of speech is GONE. All you'd have to do is mutter "bitch" at someone and be guilty of communication motivated by gender.
But this, if it does pass, could really backfire on folks. After all, any interracial robbery could be prosecuted as a hate crime. An enterprising lawyer could make a killing
To: A_perfect_lady
...But this, if it does pass, could really backfire... Unfortunately, it did pass. I think we all heard about it AFTER the fact.
Could someone(s) from PA tell us if this was a buried story back in Nov/Dec '02, which I suspect it was?
11
posted on
07/30/2003 4:47:20 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
At least you are awake. There are time bombs being placed here and there. The Patriot Act, the ICC court, hate crimes, all leading to events foretold thousands of years ago.
"When you are brought before their court, and magistrates for my name's sake, take no thought as to what you will say, for the Holy Spirit will give you what to answer in that same hour". Jesus Christ
"Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you in prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life". Jesus Christ
"And I saw the souls of those beheaded for their testimony of Jesus, who did not accept the mark of the beast." John
"And I saw, as it were, a sea of glass, mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God". John
To: MissAmericanPie
I've already had trouble "buying and selling" because I wouldn't use an id card (no grocery discount card), and just using cash -- which of course is a Revelation prophecy, where one must have the "number of the beast or the number of his own name" in order to buy or sell (paraphrasing). Now how did the culture from almost 2000 yrs ago know about needing your "number" to buy and sell?....divine prophecy...
So if that's divine prophecy, then you can understand how it enforces for today the scriptures you just listed about being persecuted for His Name sake and for His Word.
But that's a whole 'nother topic.
13
posted on
07/30/2003 5:35:03 AM PDT
by
bets
To: Badray; centurion; Wake Up America; AGreatPer
ping...to some PA Freepers
14
posted on
07/30/2003 5:38:33 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
"...here in our own republic we've already passed legislation that makes it illegal to preach parts of the Bible from the pulpit.
This bill has so much in it that makes it unconstitutional, and should be tested in the courts as soon as possible.
The courts are quick to jump on any display of religion in public places, but thinks nothing of passing legislation that controls religious thought. This presents a double standard that is forbidden by the first amendment.
If religion is to be free of governmental restraints it must stand up to government controls or there will be no religious freedoms.
15
posted on
07/30/2003 6:04:12 AM PDT
by
Noachian
(Legislation Without Representation is Tyranny)
To: Noachian
Is this just a job for the PA Freepers, or since it's really a Constitutional matter, can the rest of us contact our state's congressmen? How does one go about fighting this unless a resident of that state?
16
posted on
07/30/2003 6:16:34 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
bump!
To: bets
Is this just a job for the PA Freepers, or since it's really a Constitutional matter, can the rest of us contact our state's congressmen? How does one go about fighting this unless a resident of that state?
Since it's a state bill any effective protests against it must come from inside the state. That's a job for PA Freepers "at the moment."
It's also a constitutional matter that will spread to the other states if it's not stopped in PA, so that makes it a job for all Freepers.
One way of fighting this infringement is for the PA Freepers to take the lead in campaigning against it to both their State Legislature and State Executive. Freepers in the rest of the states fight a "preemption" battle at their state legislature and executive levels to head off any such bill coming to their state.
Whether the bill stays as it is in PA or is withdrawn the rest of the States Legislatures, Judiciaries, and Executive branches will have been put on notice that they cannot infringe on religious freedoms without a fight that will cost them dearly at the voting booth.
All that's needed is for Freepers to organize, and make waves. If you can get them to do that the hardest part is over.
18
posted on
07/30/2003 9:55:52 AM PDT
by
Noachian
(Legislation Without Representation is Tyranny)
To: bets
bets
We fought against this to no avail. Everyone was too afraid of being accused of insensitivity to vote against it. It was then signed into law by that great Republican care-taker Governor 'QueCreek Mine' Schweiker who was the lieutenant governor until Herr Ridge went on to be the Oberfuhrer of the Fatherland Security Department.
19
posted on
07/30/2003 10:17:50 AM PDT
by
Badray
(Molon Labe!)
To: Badray
Maybe the timing to oppose it is better now. Sometimes after the dust settles, you can get them to take action, while they're out of the limelight? We can't just let this one rest. I appreciate that you probably fought hard and good - so thanks.
20
posted on
07/30/2003 12:57:47 PM PDT
by
bets
To: Noachian
Do you know if legally just one person can file a complaint against the state that a bill is unconstitutional? I don't see where we should have to have 100's of people to make a case - just like in law, all it should take is one person filing a motion, and the point is made....do you know law?
How about alerting Jay Seculo and the American Center for Law and Justice? I think I'll do that, but we shouldn't give up on our Constitutional rights as Freepers. Gee, everybody's so quick to say they'll fight when the Constitution will be taken away ....WAKE UP PEOPLE, IT'S TODAY, AND IN THIS CASE IT WAS 12/02 YESTERDAY. Let's put our action where our mouth is.
21
posted on
07/30/2003 1:09:31 PM PDT
by
bets
To: Noachian
I'm not getting any response from many if any Freepers. ("Who cares until they come to MY state?" - that's a heck of an attitude for an American) No matter, I'll let you know what Jay Seculo says.
22
posted on
07/30/2003 4:50:43 PM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
Do you know if legally just one person can file a complaint against the state that a bill is unconstitutional? I don't see where we should have to have 100's of people to make a case - just like in law, all it should take is one person filing a motion, and the point is made
Sure you could do it - in theory. In practice the costs would eat you up and without a groundswell of support behind you the case would go nowhere. In real life you need lots of people to make things happen.
....do you know law?
I'm not an attorney if that's what you mean.
"Gee, everybody's so quick to say they'll fight when the Constitution will be taken away ...." Let's put our action where our mouth is.
You're going to find your biggest problem will be getting support from people who talk the talk but don't walk the walk.
See what you can get from Jay Seculo and the ACLJ. Do your homework on the entire subject. See what can and cannot be done. See what's possible and what's not possible. Get facts, facts, and more facts. Find support wherever you can, both in your local area and on the net. If you're determined to commit yourself to this project then realize that it will take time.
Fighting city hall has never been easy, but then who said freedom came easy?
23
posted on
07/30/2003 6:04:20 PM PDT
by
Noachian
(Legislation Without Representation is Tyranny)
To: Noachian
24
posted on
07/30/2003 6:10:35 PM PDT
by
bets
To: Noachian
LETTER TO BE MAILED THURSDAY: July 31, 2003
American Center for Law and Justice
PO Box 64429
Virginia Beach, VA 23467
RE: Ethnic Intimidation, PA House Bill 1493 passed 12/3/02
Good-day,
Thank you for your great and necessary work.
Would you please let me know via phone message or email if your organization is familiar with the "Ethnic Intimidation" Pennsylvania House Bill 1493 that passed Dec. 3, 2002? If so, has any action been taken or is planned to help remedy this loss of the Constitutional rights to freedom of speech and freedom of practicing religion?
I've enclosed a hardcopy of the text of the bill from a conservative news/chat website where I reported it (I am "bets"). This bill in essence makes it illegal to preach or read scriptures from the Bible (as in give a sermon from the pulpit) against homosexuality: "harassment by communication or address
motivated by hatred toward
sexual orientation, gender, or gender identity
"
And I found out that many of my Christian friends in PA tried to stop this from passing, but couldn't, and now are at a loss as to how to proceed to get their Constitutional rights back. This is why I contacted your organization: for either your suggestions or your action. If a state or federal bill is unConstitutional, then it shouldn't take more than one citizen to file an action against it, right? How does one do that, or could you do that (or already started?).
This is the first U.S. state where I've heard that they've actually outlawed the preaching of parts of the Bible. I read a book once where a pastor in CA fought against this years ago, and won. But here it is now in force in PA (my old home state). I have an older brother in PA who is a minister, and this is very important not just for that reason, but for the sake of this not becoming a precedent for other states.
I appreciate your time and response in this Constitutional matter of freedom of religion and speech.
25
posted on
07/31/2003 2:49:48 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
I contribute to Jay Sekulow's organization and applaud him for his fine work.
It's my guess that he'll wait until a specific case comes up that's harmful to the Christian community, such as an individual pastor being charged for preaching a "hate sermon" under this act. Then he'll challenge the constitutionality of the act.
26
posted on
07/31/2003 6:46:12 AM PDT
by
Ciexyz
To: bets
Thanks for posting this statute. I need it for research.
27
posted on
07/31/2003 6:48:39 AM PDT
by
Ciexyz
To: bets
You've started the ball rolling with your letter to the ACLJ, but don't sit back and wait for a quick reply. If you don't get a reply within ten working days give them a followup letter or e-mail. Remember to make a paper trail of your letters and e-mails, and make detailed notes of all your phone conversations.
While the letter is traveling to the ACLJ start talking to the people around you about the bill and start to build support for its defeat. Your letter said that you've talked to friends in PA about it so you've already got people on your side to work with. You have an older brother who's a minister in PA and certainly he should have some support against this bill as well. It seems that you have a readymade constituency to start working with. The trick now is to organize that constituency. Start with yourself, your brother, and close friends.
As far as support goes I'd take it from whatever quarter it came from, but I'd recommend looking among the people who have the most to lose because of this bill. The religious institutions in this nation, and the people who man them, are your best sources for support.
Most Americans are religious and don't want their religion altered by the government. Think about having pastors and ministers hold church dinners where the subject is discussed. Get pastors and ministers to mail out literature to their congregations. I'd be very surprised if some of this isn't already taking place. Above all let the backers of the bill know that they'll pay a political price at the voting booth.
Now you have to plan ahead and look at the down side. What happens if the bill isn't repealed? Then you have to find a way to emasculate it. To pull its teeth so it's an impotent piece of legislation. Challenge it in the courts, work with sympathetic politicians to add amendments to it, water it down any way you can until it's a shell without meaning. Go after the politicians who sponsered the bill and work to get them removed from office so they don't sponser another such bill.
All of this may sound difficult but it's definately doable. I said this would take time, and you've just taken a first step with your letter.
28
posted on
07/31/2003 8:41:22 AM PDT
by
Noachian
(Legislation Without Representation is Tyranny)
To: Ciexyz
You're probably right about the waiting for a specific case to come up, and maybe that's a good strategy - gives you a target and real people to defend, and real people are harder to ignore.
29
posted on
07/31/2003 9:05:20 AM PDT
by
bets
To: Noachian
Thanks for the encouragement and advice. I'm off to the po (the ACLJ web site is smart - only letters or phone calls are options from their contact page - that way, a fast email isn't an option, you have to be serious enough about an issue to mail the letter or pay the long distance.)
30
posted on
07/31/2003 9:07:30 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
A nation of fools and their freedoms are soon parted!
31
posted on
08/01/2003 6:18:47 PM PDT
by
The Duke
To: bets
I'm from PA. Where can I find a list of State Reps that voted for this piece of garbage? I'll also print out a copy of this and get my husband to show it to our pastor and the board of directors.
I can't say they are particularly politically active but they have shown a notion in the past for activism for pro-life and some other issues. It would just be helpful to know if any of the Reps from District 9 (that's ours!) were involved.
32
posted on
08/02/2003 2:12:02 AM PDT
by
kuma
To: kuma
I'm sure it's in line w/the ones who introduced the bill:
HB 1493 By Representatives
L. I. COHEN
CALTAGIRONE
CAPPABIANCA
GRUCELA
HARHAI
HORSEY
JAMES
KIRKLAND
LAUGHLIN
McILHINNEY
PRESTON
ROSS
J. TAYLOR
TIGUE
WALKO
YOUNGBLOOD
C. WILLIAMS
FRANKEL
JOSEPHS
STETLERLEDERER
MANDERINO
CORNELL
BISHOP
BUXTON
BROWNE
NICKOL
ROEBUCK
OLIVER
M. COHEN
D. EVANS
THOMAS
WATERS
BOYES
VEON
ROONEY
BEBKO-JONES FREEMAN
MUNDY
MANN
WASHINGTON
ROBINSON
G. WRIGHT
PALLONE
J. WILLIAMS
McGILL
CURRY
SANTONI
BELFANTI
TRICH
DALEY
DIVEN
CAPPELLI
SAMUELSON
33
posted on
08/02/2003 2:44:16 AM PDT
by
bets
To: kuma
You can directly get the bill info off the PA House of Representatives web site - go to the Sessions link, then the Electronic bill link. But here's the link directly to this bill after you do a HB1493 lookup:
HB1493
http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/BI/ALL/2001/0/HB1493.HTM
34
posted on
08/02/2003 2:47:09 AM PDT
by
bets
To: bets; All
According to this article this type of Hate Crimes Legal protection against bible believers is already enacted in several states.
What do you think???
Hate Crimes Legislation Could Trigger Lawsuits, Family Groups Warn
by: Lawrence Morahan
CNSNews.com Senior Staff Writer
Published: November 22, 2002 by the CNSNews.com
(CNSNews.com) - If passed, hate crimes legislation currently before the Pennsylvania House of Representatives could subject to lawsuits church ministers who express traditional views from the pulpit on sexual morality, a coalition of pro-family groups said.
"If pastors from pulpits speak either of the supremacy of biblical traditional marriage or speak of sexually alternative lifestyles in an unfavorable way, under this amendment they could be open to litigation," said William Devlin, president of the Urban Family Council, an inter-racial child and family advocacy group.
House Bill 1493, which likely will come up for a vote early next week, proposes to amend the state's Ethnic Intimidation Act to include "sexual orientation, gender or gender identity."
"Basically it's saying if you're sitting and you're hearing and you feel intimidated, you can sue," Devlin added.
The bill would empower people who consider themselves to be in a sexual minority, such as "gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender, transsexual, transvestite, pansexual and cross-dressers" to sue spiritual leaders who publicly espouse traditional views on sexuality, he said.
The amendment, which has been sitting in the Legislature since June 2001, was voted out of committee Nov. 12 by a 15-5 margin. The Pennsylvania Senate passed the bill last year by a 32-15 vote.
If the bill passes the House and Gov. Mark Schweiker signs it - as he has pledged to do - Pennsylvania will join 26 other states and the District of Columbia in extending hate crimes legislation to homosexuals. It will be the fifth state to include "gender identity" in those protections.
The bill has broad bipartisan support. Its proponents include Republican House Majority Leader John Perzel and Stewart Greenleaf, chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee.
Steve Miskin, a spokesman for Perzel, said the majority leader intended to vote for the measure, which could come up for a vote as early as Monday.
"He intends to support it," Miskin said. "I'm inclined to think it will pass, but there will be some people trying to amend it to death," he said.
Stacey Soebel, executive director of the Center for Lesbian and Gay Civil Rights in Philadelphia, said concerns that the amendment could be used to silence people of faith were unfounded. %hool sex education class, "it belongs in pre-school." Her vile vision provided inspiration for the creation of Daddy's Roommate and Heather Has Two Mommies, storybooks used in New York City and elsewhere to indoctrinate young children in the homosexual worldview.
It is quite possible that someday, perhaps soon, it may be a crime form anyone to oppose homosexuality. The Bible will eventually be designated as "hate literature," and preachers will be accused of "hate crimes" for condemning the practice from their pulpits. Parents will be forbidden to teach their children to abhor homosexuality. Chalmette Middle School has already forbidden their students from bringing their Bibles to school to read during free time. A student told me that if they are caught with it, they would be suspended and the book will be confiscated.
America has already begun to consider the Bible as hate literature; it just hasn't reached our law books yet.
[We will watch H.B. 1493 and let you know if it is passed.]
35
posted on
08/02/2003 2:55:28 AM PDT
by
kuma
To: bets
None of my Reps were involved in the Introduction of the Bill but I'm still wondering if they voted in favor of it. Also wondering which State Senators voted for this. I'll keep searching on the net but it may come down to contacting their offices to find out.
36
posted on
08/02/2003 3:01:37 AM PDT
by
kuma
To: kuma
Chalmette Middle School has already forbidden their students from bringing their Bibles to school to read during free time. A student told me that if they are caught with it, they would be suspended and the book will be confiscated. ...this is illegal! Jay Seculo would have a field day w/this school. I remember back in about '76, my brother brought his Bible to school to read at lunch and other "free" times. They tried to forbid him, but God bless his courage and faith, he didn't obey, and he continued to bring it to school and carry it w/his other books. Back then, it wasn't clear to the teachers as to the law. But today, it should be VERY clear - it's not illegal to have a Bible in school if it's for your own personal reading time. Good night, what's the world coming to?
37
posted on
08/02/2003 3:25:39 AM PDT
by
bets
To: kuma
Do you think that the recent "diversity" and "ethnic intimidation" changes in law in the US might be a result of our participation in things like this
International Commission of Jurists, which is a part of the
International Court of Justice? If you read the Jurists' "Programme" page, you may start to wonder.........:
National Implementation
The most pressing concern in the legal fight for the promotion and protection of human rights is the inadequate incorporation of international human rights standards into national legislation and case-law. In response, the ICJ's National Implementation Programme aims to assist in the national implementation of international human rights standards both through direct monitoring and the provision of expert technical assistance.
In addition, the ICJ's National Implementation Programme also encompasses the activities of the ICJ's Center for the Independence of Judges and Lawyers (CIJL). The CIJL was established in 1978 to safeguard the independence of judges and lawyers and protect them from attacks and harrassment. The core work of the CIJL is to promote international standards relating to the need for an independent and impartial tribunal and to ensure that Governments implement these standards in their legislation and practice.
Evolving Law
However, national implementation is inevitably subject to social, political and technological realities and the interdisciplinary challenges presented by other branches of international law. In response, the ICJ's Evolving Law Programme aims to add precision to exisiting human rights standards, to clarify the interaction between human rights standards and other branches of international law, and to propose new international standards where required.
--------------
BTW out of 60 Commissioners from all over the world, 2 are from the US.
Also, even though the US has been vocal and proud about not participating in the ICC, they've been in the ICJ, the International Court of Justice, for decades!
The International Commission of Jurists specializes in human rights laws, such as ethnic intimidation type cases.
**** NOTE the verbage from their Programme page above:****
"to ensure that Governments implement these standards in their legislation and practice."
38
posted on
08/02/2003 3:53:36 PM PDT
by
bets
To: bets
The words used in the bill are ambiguous (at least as ambiguous as many judges currently hold the Constitution, calling it a "living document.")
There's a WIDE interpretation as to what these words mean:
1. Intimidation (in the title of the bill "Ethnic Intimidation")
2. Offense (and yes despite your comment "There is nothing in the law about "offending" people," the very first word in the bill is "OFFENSE", and later in "he commits an offense..."
3. Perceived (as in "perceived race")
4. Harassment
5. Intent
6. Motivated by Hatred - now who can get into my head and tell me whether I committed a crime out of hatred or not (or insanity, or malice, or stupidity, or accident, or whatever)?
39
posted on
08/13/2003 4:34:41 AM PDT
by
bets
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