Posted on 08/01/2003 12:10:34 PM PDT by sitetest
I hope that those "quality people" are enough to pay the bills.
Indeed it will. But if the Anglican Mainstream's approach works out right, we orthodox parishes will still have our beautiful buildings, built by the faithful giving of those who came before, and kept for the generations of believers who'll follow.
It may not work, but I think it probably will.
I mean how can a Christian be expected to follow the Bible?
So much ignorance...so little time.
What bothers me is that a church can even consider this. When that which is wrong is considered to be ok or acceptable by the church, then the church IS no longer. What remains is an imposter.
Not in my church! Solid church body, solid pastoral staff, grounded in the truth of God's Word...humble, sinful--yet forgiven--servants.
Many of us will never live up to the standard set before us, but that does not mean we should ditch the standard. And therein lies the dilemma for liberals....not only can they NOT live up to the standard, but in their (blind) depravity, they would just rather eliminate the standard all together.
And Martin Luther, as well.
This is a lie, of course. It is ONLY by following scripture that we can come to the knowledge and understanding of what it means to be truly free, truly "liberated."
I see and understand. I grew up Episcopalian and loved our old cathedrals (St Johns in Denver is wonderful) and old churches.
My prayers are with you.
Abraham, a shepherd. Moses, a foundling. JC, a carpenter. Peter, a fisherman.
Actually, it's not ironic--it's almost traditional.
You are fortunate, from what I understand. I gather that most ECUSA bishops do not allow its use at all.
I find that sad. I had to relearn my way around the '28 (which, when I was a child, was so boring) when I became an Anglican, but the beauty and majesty of the language (as you noted for the Great Litany) stood out after my 15 years' absence, including the time of the Green and Zebra trial books.
I suppose if I were Roman Catholic I would love the Latin Mass, though I'd need more than my relatively recent one year of Latin. OTOH, I am mindful of the 24th Article of Religion... and the proof that we meet that is perhaps found in the makeup of our parish; very few of us are former Episcopalians.
Makes me think there is no other way to approach Him but in humble reverence. But, that's just my way of thinking....
You are fortunate. As a college student my father became an Episcopalian, converted the entire Presbyterian family, and became an Episcopal priest. 20 years ago I found it impossible to remain in the Episcopal church and so became an Anglican despite his, er, resistance. Now he's made the same change -- and though he didn't show it during our visit a few days ago, I know full well the grief and anger that lies ahead for him.
There will be a revolt. A straight church will emerge. I will attend it.
The vote will not be a determinant (except, perhaps, to those who choose to see it that way). At worst it will be an yet another indicator of the decline -- not only of ECUSA, and not only of the Church of England and others of her, um, associated daughter churches throughout the English-speaking world, many (if not all) of whom have seen a great decline in membership over the past few decades.
IMHO the disease (liberalism, socialism, leftism, or whatever you want to call it) is not localized in ECUSA. I believe it is firmly rooted in the core of Western civilization; the infections destroying the mainstream churches are secondary -- but, as in diseases that destroy the auto-immune system, likely to prove to be ultimately fatal.
We are living in momentous and difficult times. I believe this tidal wave of support for homosexuality on the part of “clergy” and denominations is a sign of the apostasy; the “falling away” of the church described in scripture that precedes the day of the Lord.
2 Thessalonians 2:3 says, “Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition.”
Three times in Matthew 24:4 Christ warned of the deception of those who come in His name He also speaks of what will occur before the Abomination of Desolation, the event in which the Antichrist will place a throne in the midst of the re-built temple in Jerusalem and declare himself to be god.
When the disciples asked the Lord Jesus, “Tell us, when will these things happen, and what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?” ...He said that “lawlessness” would “increase”, and “most people’s love (for God) will grow cold.” (Matthew 24:3, 12).
Regarding the apostasy of the church Paul proclaims:
“But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,” 1Timothy 4:1 – 2
“But realize this, that in the last days difficult times will come.
For men will be lovers of self, lovers of money, boastful, arrogant, revilers, disobedient to parents, ungrateful, unholy,
unloving, irreconcilable, malicious gossips, without self-control, brutal, haters of good,
treacherous, reckless, conceited, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God,
holding to a form of godliness, (i.e. having the outer appearance without possessing the spiritual dynamic/reality) although they have denied its power; Avoid such men as these.
For among them are those who enter into households and captivate weak women weighed down with sins, led on by various impulses,
always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Just as Jannes and Jambres opposed Moses, so these men also oppose the truth, men of depraved mind, rejected in regard to the faith.” (2Timothy 3:1 – 8)
The scriptures are consistent in regard to what God has to say about homosexuality.
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination.” (Leviticus 18:22). "
"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death. Their bloodguiltiness is upon them." (Leviticus 20:13)
In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it.
God's Word is consistent concerning the sin of Sodom;
"Before they lay down, the men of the city, the men of Sodom, surrounded the house, both young and old, all the people from every quarter;
and they called to Lot and said to him, “Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with (“know” kjv) them.”
But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him,
and said, “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly. “Now behold, I have two daughters who have not had relations with man; please let me bring them out to you, and do to them whatever you like; only do nothing to these men, inasmuch as they have come under the shelter of my roof.”
But they said, “Stand aside.” Furthermore, they said, “This one came in as an alien, and already he is acting like a judge; now we will treat you worse than them.” So they pressed hard against Lot and came near to break the door.
But the men reached out their hands and brought Lot into the house with them, and shut the door.
They struck the men who were at the doorway of the house with blindness, both small and great, so that they wearied themselves trying to find the doorway. (Genesis 19:4-11)
The Hebrew word for "know" in verse 5 is ya„da`, a sexual term. It is used frequently to denote sexual intercourse (Genesis 4:1, 17, 25; Matthew 1:24, 25). The message in the context of Genesis 19 is clear. Lot pled with the men “Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.” God’s word states that homosexuality is wickedness and must be recognized as such.
The church and those who genuinely know Christ have a responsibility to be faithful to the scriptures, not to changing social mores or pressures.
In regard to marriage the Word of God states marriage is a divinely ordered institution designed to form a permanent union between one man and one woman for one purpose (among others) of procreating or propagating the human race. That was God's order in the first of such unions (Genesis 1:27, 28; 2:24; Matthew 19:5). If, in His original creation of humans, God had created two persons of the same sex, there would not be a human race in existence today. The whole idea of two persons of the same sex “marrying” is biblically untenable. Although some clergy and denominations might “bless” a homosexual marriage, God does not and He will hold all involved accountable.
The simple fact of the matter is this; any evil condemned in Scripture cannot be honoring to God and that includes homosexuality. Today, sexual perverts masquerading as "Christian" clergy are plentiful and a sign of the times. These so-called "religious leaders" practicing and promoting homosexuality are attempting to negate the truths of scripture regarding the issue by perverting Christian terminology and concepts like love, justice and acceptance. While euphoria predominates throughout their movement to normalize and accept homosexuality within Christendom, God is not in it. He is immutable; He does not change and He has declared homosexuality an abomination and that is His position, no matter what clergy or denominations may say. Practicing homosexuals are engaged in evil forbidden and condemned by God Himself.
If we are genuinely born again, love and understand the Bible as God's revelation to mankind, we cannot and will not condone an evil that God Himself condemns.
"If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him". (I John 2:29)
"Nevertheless, the firm foundation of God stands, having this seal, ‘The Lord knows those who are His,’ and, ‘Everyone who names the name of the Lord is to abstain from wickedness.’”(II Timothy 2:19).
Romans 1:24-27; I Timothy 1:10 and Jude 7 consistently proclaim that homosexuality is evil and sin. The Romans passage is unambiguously clear. Paul attributes the moral depravity of men and women to their rejection of "the truth of God" (1:25). Because they refused "to retain God in their knowledge" (1:28), thereby dethroning God and deifying themselves.
While the Old Testament clearly condemned homosexuality, in Paul's day there were individuals who rejected its teaching. As a direct result of their rejection of God's commands He punished their sin by delivering them over to it.
Romans 1:26-31 lists twenty-three punishable sins, homosexuality leads the list. Paul wrote,
" For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error." (Romans 1:26, 27).
These verses clearly state that homosexuals suffer in their body and personality the inevitable consequences of their wrong doing. |It should be noted that the behavior of the homosexual is described as "degrading passions" (1:26).
The Greek word translated "degrading" (atimia) means filthy, dirty, evil, dishonorable. The word "passions" in Greek is pathos, used by the Greeks of either a good or bad desire. Here in the context of Romans it is used in a bad sense. This is a degrading passion, a shameful lust. It is interesting to note that God’s word condemns as sin both the desire (lusting after) and the act of homosexuality.
In these dark days the church is to be "salt and light in the world". Born again Christians, now more than ever before we have a responsibility to "NOT be conformed to this world" but to be "transformed by the renewing of our minds". (Romans 12:1 - 2) This transformation comes about as we saturate our minds and hearts with the Word of God and let it (rather that the changing social mores of our times) be the determining factor in what we believe and how we live our lives.
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