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Gulliver unbound: can America rule the world?
Sydney Morning Herald ^ | August 6 2003 | By Josef Joffe

Posted on 08/05/2003 6:29:24 AM PDT by dead

Josef Joffe, a contributing editor of Time magazine and publisher-editor of Die Zeit, delivered the twentieth annual John Bonython lecture at the Centre for Independent Studies in Sydney last night.

There has never been a Gulliver as Gulliveresque as 21st century America. It dwarfs anybody in the present as well as in the past. Of all the former greats, only Rome fits the description although, for precision's sake, it should be classified as an empire. For at the height of its power, after it had subjugated the lands between the British Isles, Carthage and the Levant, Rome was virtually identical with the then international system itself. Its successors - the Papacy or the Empire, Habsburg-Spain or the France of Louis XIV, 19th century Britain or 20th century Germany - were only would-be hegemons.

True, the sun never set on Charles V's empire, Britain ruled the waves in the 19th century, and Nazi Germany went all the way to the gates of Moscow and Cairo. But they were vulnerable to combinations of other powers which prevailed over them in the end. Nor was Britain a real exception. To uphold its exalted position, it depended on allies all the way to World War II, when it was almost done in by a single foe, Nazi Germany.

America is unique in time and space. Others might be able to defy the US, but they can neither compel nor vanquish it - except in the meaningless sense of nuclear devastation that will be mutual. The sweep of its interests, the weight of its resources and the margin of its usable power are unprecedented.

None other than Hubert Vedrine, the French foreign minister, has made the point in all its glory - though grudgingly, one must assume. "The United States of America", he proclaimed, "today predominates on the economic, monetary [and] technological level, and in the cultural area . . . In terms of power and influence, it is not comparable to anything known in modern history." In short, the U.S. is a hyper-puissance, a 'hyper-power'.

Indeed, just to mention two numbers. When in the spring of 2002, George W. Bush asked the Congress for a supplemental defense appropriation, the sum requested - $48 billion - represented twice the annual defense outlays of Germany or Italy. If US defence spending proceeds as planned, by 2007 this 'hyperpower' will invest more in defence than all other countries combined.

This giant, a kind of Uber-Gulliver, is different from its predecessors in a number of other ways.

First, unlike Rome et al., he can intervene - without the help of allies - anywhere in the world, and almost in real-time, as those B-52 bombers that rose in Missouri, dropped their bomb load over Afghanistan and then returned home, all in one fell swoop, demonstrated. Bases, as during the Second Iraq War, are useful and important, but not vital, as the closure of Turkey to the passage of American troops demonstrated earlier this year. No other power could ever project so much might so far so fast and so devastatingly.

Second, the US economy is the world's largest, but in a fundamentally different way than, say, Habsburg's. The Habsburg Empire was like Saudi - Arabia-essentially an extraction economy, a one-horse hegemon. When the silver from Latin America dried up, so did Habsburg's power. For all of its failings - from the Enron scandal to the rising current account deficit - the American economy seems better positioned to conquer the future than any of its current rivals, for at least two reasons.

One, it is more flexibly organised, hence better prepared to respond to ever more rapid shifts in demand and technology. Two, it enjoys an enormous competitive advantage in the acquisition of today's most important factor of production - knowledge. It is not just the global predominance of Harvard and Stanford, Caltech and MIT, but something more profound and less obvious.

This is a culture that keeps drawing the best and the brightest to its shores - which, by the way, is true for the English-speaking nations in general. No longer is it Metternich, Hitler or Stalin who are driving talent across the Atlantic. It comes entirely unpropelled, attracted by the wealth of opportunity and the speed of advancement. How this most precious resource will be able to clear the barriers of the Patriot Act is an issue America has not yet begun to tackle.

A third mainstay of American preponderance is cultural. This is another significant contrast with past hegemons. Whereas the cultural sway of Rome, Britain and Soviet Russia ended at its military borders, American culture needs no gun to travel. If there is a global civilisation, it is American. Nor is it just McDonald's and Hollywood, it is also Microsoft and Harvard. Wealthy Romans used to send their children to Greek universities; today's Greeks, that is, the Europeans, send their kids to Roman, that is, American universities - and to British boarding schools.

Why this peculiar twist? Maybe, it is the fact that America is the 'first universal nation', one whose cultural products appeal to so large an audience because they transcend narrow national borders. It all began a hundred years ago when Russian Jews from the Pale started making movies in Hollywood that interpreted the 'American Dream' to the rest of the world.

To recapitulate: This Uber-Gulliver packs a threefold set of uniquely big muscles - military, economic and cultural - and there is nothing on the horizon of political reality that suggests the speedy demise of his hegemony.

Certainly, it will not be the kind of over-extension that felled Rome, Habsburg et al. In the last hundred years, average military spending as proportion of GDP has been four percent - with the Second World War and the Vietnam War as significant exception. Four percent is a far cry from the estimated 25 percent spent by the Soviet Union in the 1980s, the decade before its collapse.

After Bipolarity: Must Go Down What Comes Up?

Nonetheless, history and theory suggest that this cannot last. In the international system, power will always beget counter-power, usually by way of coalitions and alliances among the lesser players, and ultimately war, as in the cases of Napoleon, Wilhelm II. and Adolf I. Has this game already begun? The answer is 'No, but'.

It is 'No' for two reasons. First, America irks and domineers, but it does not conquer. It tries to call the shots and bend the rules, but it does not go to war for land and glory. Maybe, America was simply lucky. Its 'empire' was at home, between the Appalachians and the Pacific, and its enemies - Indians and Mexicans - easily bested. The last time the US actually did conquer was in the Philippines and Cuba a hundred years ago.

This is a critical departure from traditional great power behaviour. For the balance-of-power machinery to crank up, it makes a difference whether the others face a usually placid elephant or an aggressive T. rex. Rapacious powers are more likely to trigger hostile coalitions than nations that contain themselves, so to speak. And when the U.S. attacked Afghanistan and Iraq, it was not exactly invading an innocent like Belgium.

Nonetheless, Mr. Big is no pussycat, and he does throw his weight around. Why is it so hard to balance against him?

My answer: Counter-aggregations do not deal very well with the postmodern nature of power. Let's make no mistake about it. 'Hard power' - men and missiles, guns and ships - still counts. It remains the ultimate, because existential, currency of power. But on the day-to-day transaction level, 'soft power' is the more interesting coinage. It is less coercive and less tangible. It grows out of the attraction of one's ideas. It has to do with 'agenda setting', with 'ideology' and 'institutions', and with holding out big prizes for cooperation, such as the vastness and sophistication of one's market.

'Soft power' is cultural-economic power, and very different from its military kin. The US has the most sophisticated army in the world, but it is in a class of its own in the soft-power game. On that table, none of the others can match America's pile of chips; it is American books and movies, universities and research labs, American tastes high and low that predominate in the global market.

This type of power - a culture that radiates outward and a market that draws inward - rests on pull, not on push; on acceptance, not on imposition. Nor do the many outweigh the one. In this arena, Europe, Japan, China and Russia cannot meaningfully 'gang up' on the US like in an alliance of yore. All of their movie studios together could not break Hollywood's hold because if size mattered, India, with the largest movie output in the world, would rule the roost. Nor could all their universities together dethrone Harvard and Stanford. For sheer numbers do not lure the best and the brightest from abroad who keep adding to the competitive advantage of America's top universities.

Against soft power, aggregation does not work. How does one contain power that flows not from coercion but seduction?

Might it work in the economic sphere? There is always the option of trading blocs-cum-protectionism. But would Europe (or China or Japan) forego the American market for the Russian one? Or would Europe seek solace in its vast internal market alone? If so, it would forgo the competitive pressures and the diffusion of technology that global markets provide. The future is mapped out by DaimlerChrysler, not by a latter-day 'European Co-Prosperity Sphere'.

This is where the game has changed most profoundly. Its rivals would rather deal with America's 'soft power' by competition and imitation because the costs of economic warfare are too high - provided, of course, that strategic threats do not re-emerge. To best Gulliver, Europe et. al. must do their work-out at home.

'Soft' Balancing

These two reasons help to explain why 'hard' balancing - alliances and war - has not set in against the American Uber-Gulliver. But remember the 'No, but'. The 'but' is a shorthand for saying that 'soft balancing' against Mr. Big has already set in.

Is there a date? It is Christmas Day 1991, when the hammer-and-sickle flag over the Kremlin was hauled down for the last time, when the Soviet Union committed suicide by dissolution. From this point onward, the structure of international changed from bipolarity to unipolarity. Gulliver's power was no longer neutralised and stalemated by another player of equivalent weight. The ropes were off, so to speak, and that had political consequences.

What is 'soft balancing?' The best example is the run-up to the Second Iraq War when a trio of lesser powers - France, Germany and Russia - all 'ganged up' on No. 1 diplomatically in their effort to stop the Anglo-American move against Saddam Hussein. What was their purpose? To save Saddam Hussein? No, of course not. It was to contain and constrain American power, now liberated from the ropes of bipolarity.

And why not? Assume this American victory, swift as it turned out to be, is also sustainable - that it intimidates rather than inflames Arabs and Iranians, relieves dependence on dangerous clients such as Saudi Arabia and Egypt, and finally loosens up the dysfunctionalities of Arab political culture that spawned Al Qaida. Such an outcome will finally consecrate the US as arbiter over the Middle East, over its oil and politics. This prospect can hardly enthuse the lesser players, for it would certify what is already the case de facto: the global primacy of the United States.

So it should not come as a surprise that America's rivals and quondam allies would try to balance against No. 1 by enmeshing him in the ropes of institutional dependence, that is, the UN Security Council. This was a classic instance of 'soft balancing' against No. 1 - spawned by the profound shock to the international equilibrium caused by the demise of No. 2, the Soviet Union.

Another kind of balancing, let's call it 'surreptitious balancing', had begun much earlier, in the mid-1990s, when the US regularly found itself alone and on the other side of such issues as the ABM Treaty or the International Criminal Court. Au fond, all of these duels were not about principle, but power. If the United States wanted to scratch the ABM Treaty in favor of Missile Defense, Europe, China and Russia sought to uphold it on the sound assumption that a better defense makes for a better offense, hence for richer US military options than under conditions of vulnerability.

And so with the International Criminal Court (ICC). In the end, even the Clinton team correctly understood the underlying thrust of the ICC. Claiming the right to pass judgment on military interventions by prosecuting malfeasants ex post facto, the Court might deter and thus constrain America's forays abroad. All the Liliputians would gain a kind of droit de regard over American actions.

Europe and others cherished this expansion of multilateral oversight precisely for the reason why the United States opposed it. Great powers loathe international institutions they cannot dominate; lesser nations like them the way the Lilliputians liked their ropes on Gulliver. The name of the game was balancing-on-the-sly, and both sides knew it, though it was conducted in the name international law, not of raw power.

Can Gulliver Go It Alone?

To recapitulate. One, Gulliver is an Uber-Gulliver. Unique in time and space, he has the largest pile of chips on all significant gaming tables: military-technological, economic and cultural. Second, hard balancing, the anti-hegemonial tool of choice in history, has not set in because this Gulliver, for the time being, is more of an elephant than a T. rex. Third, as the last decade has shown, the international system will exact its revenge, and so, 'soft balancing' and 'balancing-on-the-sly' has already set in, as international relations theory correctly predicted once bipolarity - the mutual stalemating of nos. 1 and 2 - was dead. Now, to my fourth and final point: Can Gulliver go it alone?

The answer is no. Given No. 1's exalted position in the international hierarchy of power, one must assume that he would want to remain what he is - Gulliver forever. If so, he has two, and only, two choices. One would seek to undercut or outmaneuver countervailing coalitions, a latter-day British grand strategy, so to speak. The other is a strategy that would emphasise cooperation over competition, a kind of retake of the Golden Age of American diplomacy of the early postwar decades.

Strategy I is the 'Rumsfeld Strategy' en vogue right now, one that follows the Secretary of Defence's famous injunction: "The mission determines the coalition, and not the other way round." This is the logical counter to the attempts on the part of nos. 2, 3, 4, 5 etc. to tie down Gulliver with the ropes of institutional dependence, where it is 'one nation, one vote'. The essence of the game is to pick ever changing coalitions of the willing within which the word of No. 1 is the writ of the whole. This strategy actually antedates Don Rumsfeld; George Bush the Elder enacted it in the First Iraq War and Bill Clinton assembled a NATO posse for the Kosovo intervention. The rule here is: Act only with those you can dominate.

A complementary strategy is 'counter-counter-balancing' to neutralise the kind of anti-American coalition France, Germany and Russia tried to organise in the run-up to the Second Iraq War. Against this 'Neo-Triple Entente', the Bushies engineered the 'Wall Street Eight' and the 'Vilnius Ten'. And so, on January 30, Messrs. Chirac and Schroder woke up to an op-ed piece in the Wall Street Journal/Europe where the leaders of Britain, Spain, Italy, Poland, the Czech Republic, Hungary, Denmark and Portugal told Paris and Berlin in so many words: "We are not amused that you are trying to gang up on the United States. Saddam must be disarmed, by force if need be."

Repeated more harshly by the 'Vilnius-10' on February 5 ("We are prepared to contribute to an international coalition to enforce..."), the message was that 18 European countries (from A like Albania to S like Slovenia) were not ready to take on the 'hyperpower' - and even less ready to submit to the French and Germans as would-be gang leaders.

A clever counter-move, but such a strategy - balancing a la Britain - has not been America's greatest forte. Nor will it take care of the underlying dynamics of the post-bipolar world. Great power will keep generating counter-power sooner or later. Better, and probably more economical in the long run, is a strategy that undercuts the incentives for ganging up - to soften he hard edge of America's overwhelming power with the soothing balm of trust. In his State of the Union Address of 2003, George W. Bush did not hold out such relief when he asserted that, in the end, "The course of this nation does not depend on the decisions of others."

Hence, Grand Strategy II - updating the Golden Age of American diplomacy. America's core role then was institution-building, as illustrated by a whole alphabet soup of acronyms: UN, IMF, GATT, OEEC/OECD, NATO, World Bank, WTO, PfP, plus a host of subsidiary Cold War alliances like ANZUS, SEATO and CENTO. Think of these not just as international institutions , but as international public goods, and the point is that these institutions took care of American interests while serving those of others. This was an extraordinary break with centuries of power politics. For previous hegemons were in business for themselves only.

What is the advantage of such a strategy? I would argue that nos. 2, 3, 4 ... will prefer cooperation with no. 1 to anti-American coalitions as long as the US remains the foremost provider of such international public goods - call them security, free trade, financial stability and an orderly procedure for conflict resolutions.

The essence of public goods is that anybody can profit from them once they exist - like a park in the neighbourhood or an unpolluted river. That gives the lesser players a powerful incentive to maintain the existing order and to accord at least grudging acceptance to the producer of those benefits. At the same time, it diminishes their incentives to gang up on him.

While the others surely resent America's clout, they have also found it useful to have a player like the United States in the game. Europe and Japan regularly suffer from America's commercial hauteur, but they also suspect that the US is the ultimate guarantor of the global trade system. Britain and France were only too happy to let American cruise missiles bludgeon the Serbs to the negotiating table in 1995 and 1999. The Arabs hardly love the US, but they did cooperate when George Bush mobilised an international posse against Saddam Hussein in 1990 because they could not contain him on their own. And so again in 2001 when Bush the Younger harnessed a worldwide coalition against terrorism.

When lesser powers cannot deter China in the Straits of Taiwan, or persuade North Korea to denuclearise, it is nice to have one special actor in the system who has the will and the wherewithal to do what others wish but cannot achieve on their own. Indeed, he is indispensable. In the language of public goods theory: There must always be somebody who will recruit individual producers, organise the startup and generally assume a disproportionate burden in the enterprise. That is as true in international affairs as it is in grassroots politics.

But now you will ask: Why continue to pay a disproportionate share of the bill? Here are some answers. By providing security for others - in Europe, the Middle East and the Pacific - the US has also bought security for itself. Stability is its own reward because it prevents worse: arms races, nuclear proliferation, conflicts that spread.

Enlarging NATO, though costly to the American taxpayer, brings profits to both Poland and the United States because anything that secures the realm of liberal democracy benefits its leading representative.

Shoring up the World Trade Organisation (WTO), even when it pronounces against Washington, is still good for America because, as the world's largest exporter, it has the greatest interest in freer trade.

Are the costs of 'public goods' production intolerable? The problem is that the bulk of the world's great institutions were built during the Cold War when it was clearly in the interest of no. 1 to shoulder the burden and sign the checks. Since then, it is no longer so clear that the United States puts more resources into international institutions than it seeks to draw from them.

America's old penchant for free trade is now diluted by preferences for 'managed trade', which is a euphemism for regulated trade. Having regularly castigated the EU for its protectionist agricultural policy, the US has now handed out billions in largesse to its own farmers, adding a nice dollop for steel producers, too. And if it cannot achieve consensus, the US will act unilaterally - or bilaterally, as most recently in the Second Iraq War.

The costs of a 'communitarian' grand strategy are clearly high. First, Gulliver has to pay a disproportionate share of the institutional maintenance fee. Second, he will have to resist those domestic forces - steel, farmers - who would maximise their welfare at the expense of global welfare. Third, he will have to expend an inordinate diplomatic effort to persuade and cajole. Finally, he may sometimes find himself immobilised by the Lilliputians.

On the other hand, the costs of a 'Rumsfeld Strategy' may be worse. As the US diminishes its investment in global public goods, others will feel the sting of American power more strongly. And the incentive to discipline Mr. Big will grow.

Short of that, the aftermath of the Second Iraq War seems to suggest that it is easier to go in by yourself than to leave by yourself. There are just too many players in this game who would love to see the US and Britain fail, starting with the remnants of the Baathist regime and continuing with Iran, the Arab dictatorships and the Palestinians. Presumably the Neo-Triple-Entente that tried to stop the war would not mind either if the US had its nose bloodied in the Middle East. The long and the short of this is: The most sophisticated military panoply in history cannot quite substitute for international legitimacy.

But let's look beyond Iraq and generalise the point. The most interesting issues in world politics cannot be solved even by an Uber-Gulliver acting alone. How shall we count the ways? Nuclear proliferation in Iran and North Korea, international terrorism, free trade, global financial stability, mayhem in places like Liberia, the Congo or the Sudan, climate control, the AIDS epidemic in Africa, China's transition from totalitarianism to the rule of law and perhaps even democracy, the political pathologies of the Arab Middle East that gave us Al-Qaida. These are all issues that, almost by definition, require collective responses.

So Gulliver's choices seem all to clear. Primacy does not come cheap, and the price is measured not just in dollars and cents, but above all in the currency of obligation. Conductors manage to mould 80 solo players into a symphony orchestra because they have fine sense for everybody else's quirks and qualities - because they act in the interest of all; their labour is the source of their authority.

And so a truly great power must do more than merely deny others the reason and opportunity for 'ganging up'. It must also provide essential services. Those who do for others engage in systemic supply-side economics: They create a demand for their services, and that translates into political profits also known as 'leadership'.

Power exacts responsibility, and responsibility requires the transcendence of narrow self-interest. As long as the United States continues to provide such public goods, envy and resentment will not escalate into fear and loathing that spawn hostile coalitions. But let's put this in less lofty terms.

Real empires routinely crush their rivals. But America is only an 'imperial republic', as Raymond Aron mused decades ago. Presumably, democracies pay 'decent respect to the opinions of mankind' because they cherish that respect for themselves. They are better off leading by heeding because they cannot sustain the brutish ways of Rome for any length of time.

Unwilling to conquer, this 'empire' still needs order beyond borders. The objective is the right 'milieu'. To achieve it, America must sometimes use force; to sustain it, the sword is not enough - and too costly, to boot. But to build the right coalitions for peace, the United States must not forsake the 'co' in 'coalition' - as in 'consensus' and 'cooperation'. As Gulliver learned, it is hard enough to live even as friendly giant among the pygmies. It is even harder to escape their slings and arrows when strength is untempered by self-restraint. For power shall be balanced.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: americanempire; paxamericana
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To: Restorer
I agree with you, and I believe that this is the point of Joffe's article, in which there is a lot of truth.

Freedom was mentioned in the article, but not by that word. America, Joffe argues, is not countered in the world because it refuses to conquer other countries in the traditional sense.

Joffe, however, argues without exactly coming out and saying it, that it doesn't matter. America is conquering economically, culturally, militarily, institutionally, and politically - without incurring the expense of conquest that the Soviets or Romans did.

In fact, Joffe writes that this conquest happens at the expense of other countries, and the tribute to Imperial America comes in the form of talent from those conquered. Our ideas, our constitution, our ability to make something of our selves is so seductive that talent comes to us 'unpropelled'.

If anything, Joffe sort of gets tired and fails to finish what was started. The impact of a successful redraw of the Middle East is pretty much glossed over for the most part. Joffe also underappreciates the effect of an American taxpayer waking up to the reality that he is being asked to hand over his coin, and maybe even his job, to make 'the world' a better place.

The US is also in a race with Japan and other petroleum-challenged first world countries: either guarantee a cheap supply of secure oil, or we will successfully move on to an economy based on something other than petroleum. Joffe does mention something about this.

I think this is a pretty ballsy article. Joffe is saying that we already have a one-world government, if something catastrophic doesn't happen in the Iraq. With a loyal, pro-West Iraq, we simply don't need Saudi Arabia or OPEC, or Russia. With ballistic missile defense, there eventually isn't even the remote possibility of nuking us if America simply got out of hand.

Ginsberg came out yesterday and admitted that the SCOTUS was starting to incorporate jurisprudence from outside our shores - do you think that's accidental?

This generation is bearing the cost of prosperity redistribution in the form of exporting manufacturing and back office high tech, to create a global middle class. Another article I read today talks about the flow of manufacturing jobs out of the Mexican maquiladora into China - due to the large gap in wages! Between Mexico and China!



So far, the only thing keeping that taxpayer in the game was the compelling interest of counter-terrorism. That excuse is either going to run out of steam, or they will have to have another 9-11 to keep us all scared enough to play along some more.
61 posted on 08/05/2003 12:47:05 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs
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To: DoughtyOne; RightWhale
This article also ignores numerous very important internal issues that plague the United States. What an enemy can't do from abroad, a nation can do to iteself through ignorance.

I would wholeheartedly agree. One need only look at 2 critical areas to see the potential for self-destruction: education and personal liberties. Regarding education, we seem to be purposely dumbing ourselves down. It is simply amazing how much our 12th graders don't know about our history, geography or the structure of our government - things that are necessary to make informed decisions (i.e. to vote) regarding foreign affairs. The population is becoming more willing to swallow the leftist/internationalist drivel that says that we should always be restrained in dealing with foreign nations. Second, we have long since begun to dismantle the precious liberties that the Founding Generation fought and bled for. As rightwhale mentioned, the key here is the 2nd Amendment. If it goes down the tubes (de facto, not de jure, as the latter won't occur), then our liberties will be gone in all but name. Abominations like the Patriot Act are bad enough by themselves, but they'd be even worse without 250+ million guns in civilian hands.

I am reminding of the following quote:

At what point shall we expect the approach of danger? By what means shall we fortify against it? Shall we expect some transatlantic military giant to step the ocean and crush us at a blow? Never! All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa combined, with all the treasure of the earth in their military chests; with a Buonaparte for a commander, could not by force take a drink from the Ohio, or make a track on the Blue Ridge, in the trial of a thousand years.

At what point then is the approach of danger to be expected? I answer, if it ever reach us, it must spring up amongst us. It cannot come from abroad. If destruction be our lot, we ourselves must be its author and finisher. As a nation of freemen, we must live through all time, or die by suicide.

Abraham Lincoln, January 27, 1838

62 posted on 08/05/2003 12:50:07 PM PDT by Ancesthntr
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To: DoughtyOne
I’m sorry, but I just can’t get all that fired up about the threat to our sovereignty that the ICC represents.

Without an enforcement arm of significant strength, any court is an irrelevant dog and pony show.

I agree that our leadership should have rejected it forcefully, upfront, and immediately. But they didn’t.

So now, the ICC, and the UN, could in theory claim some moral high ground if they “convict” an American leader or soldier, but that’s it. They can’t enforce any sentence, or extradite anyone, or invade our offending nation to force regime change. They could only make a political statement. And hopefully our congress/president would react accordingly and defund the UN.

If you seek to claim that you are a bold conservative leader…

That claim would really be a bit of a stretch, ICC or not.

63 posted on 08/05/2003 12:55:14 PM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: Southack
Thanks for the response. It was a reasonable explanation. Let's just end this by my stating that I hope you are right. Take care.
64 posted on 08/05/2003 12:57:45 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: Ancesthntr
Thanks for your comments. Very nice.
65 posted on 08/05/2003 12:59:52 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: VadeRetro
I worry about the economy these days. Never thought I'd say that, but an achilles heel is starting to show there.

The economy is always a concern. But the economy will always reflect a considerable complex of factors, and will generally solve its own problems, if Governments and politicians can be kept out of its way.

I found the article here somewhat less than insightful. Certainly the writer makes some valid points, valid in the present context, at the present moment in time--part of that present complex, of course. But while he blithely skips over an acknowledgment of the importance of economic and cultural factors, he does not really look at how these factors develop--not even to the extent of spending any time at all, on such questions as to the flow of wealth with respect to Rome--to or from the Romans. He blithely ignores the Asian reality, at the time of Rome, with no understanding of the complex civilizations that existed at the same time in China & India, etc.. He fails to consider the ethnic factors in each of the great empires. And while he acknowledges our Republican institutions, he does not consider how such institutions fared with respect to Rome, or how changes in the constituency of those wielding power, effected the way that power was wielded, nor how wielding that power effected domestic society.

That the Rumsfeld Defence Department was able to function as well as it did in the recent Iraqi war, is certainly a cause for rejoicing. That does not mean that we should plan other such wars, without very careful thought as to their advisability both militarily and otherwise. That we can put together alliances, when we need them, is certainly an improvement over the entangling alliances that others have advocated; but it is not the same thing as our traditional Foreign Policy. We not only kept control of our own policy; we also showed respect for the differences between peoples. We asked only that we be treated with respect; that they leave us alone in our own ways, and deal with us fairly in all our international dealings, and we accorded them the same courtesies. It was that policy that gained us the respect of most of civilized humanity; and we are in grave danger of wasting that capital of good will.

I would suggest that Mr. Joffre look a little closer at Rome, when she was mostly Roman, Republican and free, in the early days of her Empire; and Rome when she became Cosmopolitan and Authoritarian. I am sure that he would not want to see an American Empire--even the invisible sort that he suggests--made possible at the expense of declaring a Hillary Clinton, "Goddess." But many of you will catch my drift.

The Britain of the Empire was a Britain sustained, of course, not by Authoritarianism, but by a British spirit, fuelled by a sense of ethnicity--and indeed a species of lovable arrogance. America, thanks to reckless immigration policies, no longer has such a sense of her unique ethnicity. We are not, even now--even without the further trend that Clinton envisioned--able to act with the sort of unity, necessary to long sustain the sort of intrusive policies that Joffre hints at. We could only do so by suppressing dissent, and going truly Roman; and in that process, we would kill that economic goose--if idiotic foreign aid programs, coupled with idiotic extensions of Medicare, etc., had not already done so.

Just some random thoughts.

William Flax Return Of The Gods Web Site

66 posted on 08/05/2003 1:01:40 PM PDT by Ohioan
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To: dead
As far as enforcement goes, my views don't differ from yours much. However, I've seen how our government reacts to WTO decisions. It says jump. Our Congress asks how high. Can it enforce it's decisions. Does it have legions to command?
67 posted on 08/05/2003 1:04:15 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: dead
After Bipolarity: Must Go Down What Comes Up?

Yoda pursues his second career as a political analyst.

68 posted on 08/05/2003 1:06:11 PM PDT by Centurion2000 (We are crushing our enemies, seeing him driven before us and hearing the lamentations of the liberal)
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To: DoughtyOne
If we don't agree with the WTO rulings, we could opt out anytime we wanted to. But we don't want to. We would lose out on other trade deals that we see as beneficial.

The ICC, on the other hand, has a lack of carrots to go along with their lack of sticks.

69 posted on 08/05/2003 1:16:35 PM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: dead
Thanks dead. There's one more issue on which we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't view the WTO a plus by any stretch of the imagination.
70 posted on 08/05/2003 1:25:04 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
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To: austinTparty
Yeah, I did actually. And your point was...?
71 posted on 08/05/2003 1:28:01 PM PDT by mewzilla
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To: DoughtyOne
I'm not a big fan of the WTO for a number of reasons. I was just pointing out why we even bother to listen to them. Our politicians (who we elected) believe that the overall deal is positive. (very debatable but that's another issue)

If we chose to, we could walk away from them at any time. The same is true of any international organization we deal with. We agree to abide by their rulings by choice.

72 posted on 08/05/2003 1:29:20 PM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: dead
I find this insightful, but I think the author oversimplifies the "Rumsfeld strategy." What the administration is trying to do is not impose US domination but instead bestow a large portion of the power of the UN to a coalition of democratic states of which the US is a very senior member.

I think Europeans (and Canadians and many Austrailians) fail to see this because they have either lost faith in the specialness of liberty or have become hostile to it.

73 posted on 08/05/2003 1:49:46 PM PDT by MattAMiller
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To: MattAMiller
There's plenty of hope for the Australians.

If you only read their media, they appear more hopeless than France.

But somebody down under elected John Howard, and he's one of the real stalwarts in the ongoing battles.

74 posted on 08/05/2003 6:29:10 PM PDT by dead (Perdicaris alive or Raisuli dead!)
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To: Ohioan
The economy is always a concern. But the economy will always reflect a considerable complex of factors, and will generally solve its own problems, if Governments and politicians can be kept out of its way.

We're working into a whole new kind of economic jam, one we haven't been in since colonial times when the Brit homeland reserved most manufacturing unto itself. The next few years should be very interesting.

A sampling of the materials on the site you linked left me a little uneasy. I don't know if you actually run it or are just recommending a look, but my reactions to it run as follows:

1) Serbia lost, get over it!

2) I'd rather see immigration issues discussed independently of race and culture. I favor shutting down the flood of illegals with whatever it takes. We don't need anything that can be taken as a racist policy to do that. Illegal immigration is already illegal. Immigration aside, we already have a multiracial society and we'll have to go forward from here as a multiracial society. It's a done deal.

75 posted on 08/05/2003 7:00:39 PM PDT by VadeRetro
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To: Sabertooth
What you said. :) Yep. The upside is that I will probably achieve my final exit prior to things getting very nervous again. China needs to get involved in some unfortunate foreign adventure and get its chops licked. Prior to then, it strikes me as akin to Bismark Germany, ie, a place that bears close and nervous watching, with its facist tendencies not being subject to any pyschological check. Most Chinese think the future belongs to them, and they may well be right.
76 posted on 08/05/2003 9:03:24 PM PDT by Torie
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To: dead
If you only read their media, they appear more hopeless than France.

Same here with the 'States. I sometimes wonder if Al Qaeda's underestimation of the USA was because they got a lot of their info from the "news".

Good article, btw.

77 posted on 08/05/2003 9:16:55 PM PDT by P.O.E.
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To: Torie
The upside is that I will probably achieve my final exit prior to things getting very nervous again.

Let me see if I can get them to hurry...


78 posted on 08/05/2003 11:04:38 PM PDT by Sabertooth (Dump Davis)
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To: VadeRetro
A sampling of the materials on the site you linked left me a little uneasy. I don't know if you actually run it or are just recommending a look, but my reactions to it run as follows:

Not only run it; but write all articles except for those attributed to other authors: George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, James A. Reed, H.L. Mencken, Edgar Allan Poe, etc..

1) Serbia lost, get over it!

While I respect the Serbian people, as a racial or ethnic group, there is nothing on my site that could be considered a lament over the misfortunes of the Serbs in recent decades. Doubtless you are referring to my essay, American Foreign Policy At The Crossroads, which does indeed deal with the war on Serbia, but from an American perspective, not a Serbian perspective. The immediate subject is the Clinton/Blair attack on Serbia as part of an effort to convert NATO into the equivalent of the Fabian Socialist dream of an "Atlantic Union." The subject is really Clinton, and his deliberate sabotaging of traditional American values, not the plight of the Serbs, per se.

2) I'd rather see immigration issues discussed independently of race and culture. I favor shutting down the flood of illegals with whatever it takes. We don't need anything that can be taken as a racist policy to do that. Illegal immigration is already illegal. Immigration aside, we already have a multiracial society and we'll have to go forward from here as a multiracial society. It's a done deal.

The Leftwing idea that everything they have accomplished is a done deal, and the only issue is how far we will let them push the envelope in the immediate future, is historic nonsense--the equivalent to the Marxist notion that History is driven by Dialectical Materialism. It just is not so.

But rather than take up bandwith, I will simply offer a link to my essay to which you appear to be referring:

An American Immigration Policy.

Of course, to completely ignore the ethnic characteristics and cultural values of those whom you are considering admitting to your body politic is madness. But I will let the essay speak for itself.

William Flax

79 posted on 08/06/2003 10:34:48 AM PDT by Ohioan
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To: Ohioan
I gave some of your articles a quick read (it's late, i'm tired but can't sleep)

I read the article on race and the one on immigration on your website. Taking both of those into account, you seem to be advocating selective immigration based on superior racial attributes and the ability to easily blend into the existing culture.

Also, while reading your article on race, it kept reminding me of some groups that hold complete disdain at the intermingling (genetically and culturally) of races.

I could be wrong on assuming this is what you believe. Can you restate your position on these issues for me?
80 posted on 08/09/2003 11:45:30 PM PDT by Johnbalaya
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