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The liberals are clearly on the march in the historic Reformation churches. Any denominations in which church properties and funds and pensions are held by the denomination are a fat target for the liberals to seize.

Good points, what I don’t get is the disproportion (red state v. blue state) of conservatives primates in “my” church. How the heck did it get so lopsided?

I’m usually the first to deride my Baptist fundy friends whose ministers frequently cite the events leading to revelation as having taken place because the Bible says we cannot not know when they are happening. But if I were to go out on a limb here I honestly think this is the work of Satan and the beginning of the end of the world. How does that verse go in Isaiah, when right is wrong and wrong is right?

Good points, what I don’t get is the disproportion (red state v. blue state) of conservatives primates in “my” church. How the heck did it get so lopsided?

I have a facile and typically annoying Baptist answer for you: politics are derived from religion. Religion is far more the driving force than merely secular political movements are. The root and seed of socialism and anti-Christian politics can be traced to apostate and apostasizing churches.

Well, I warned you that it's annoying. But I think it's true and that considerable evidence can be assembled for the idea. If Christ is the center of all history, then His churches are the great battlefields, both in the secular and the spiritual realms.

I’m usually the first to deride my Baptist fundy friends whose ministers frequently cite the events leading to revelation as having taken place because the Bible says we cannot not know when they are happening. But if I were to go out on a limb here I honestly think this is the work of Satan and the beginning of the end of the world. How does that verse go in Isaiah, when right is wrong and wrong is right?

Well, you certainly have many adequate warnings in scripture of wolves among the flock, false shepherds, that your brethren will be your greatest enemies, etc. We Baptists have done what we can to take that sound advice to heart. And the eras of Baptist growth are closely tied to when we follow this Biblical precept faithfully. We who are Calvinists as well will also note that these same periods of growth are tied to the periods where we turn again to Calvinist doctrine.

At any rate, the end of the world, whenever it shall be, will come in God's own time. It may be something of a comfort to review the problems of the early churches as described in the New Testament. You'll see that the current problems of orthodox Episcopalians are not unprecedented. In the final analysis, salvation and witness is a matter of individuals, not of churches or denominations. Again, we Baptists try to keep that in mind and act accordingly.

The problems conservative Episcopalians face currently have mostly to do with whether they will honor the biblical injunction to separate from those who will not tolerate the plain teachings of scripture and the entire testimony of 2000 years of orthodox Christian belief and practice.

I know it's not easy. But if schism comes to the Episcopal church, these are points that should be kept in mind to safeguard future conservative Episcopalian churches to safeguard them from apostate liberal leadership.