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Kennedy likens Vatican stance on gay unions to 'bigotry' (oh, go get a job, you little creep)
Providence Journal ^ | 08/06/2003 | MICHAEL CORKERY

Posted on 08/06/2003 7:29:43 AM PDT by Liz

Other members of the Rhode Island delegation support civil unions but not same-sex marriage.

U.S. Rep. Patrick J. Kennedy has charged into the debate over same-sex marriage, criticizing the Vatican for its opposition to laws recognizing gay and lesbian couples.

A member of the country's most legendary Roman Catholic political family, representing the most Catholic state in the nation, Kennedy said he refuses to follow the Vatican's edict, issued last week, imploring Catholic lawmakers to oppose same-sex unions.

"I see the policy of opposing same-sex marriages or unions, whatever you call it, as bigotry or discrimination," Kennedy said yesterday in an interview.

"We are talking about the law here and whether the law is going to treat people equally here. I don't see where the church or anyone else dictates what the policy is going to be with respect to treating people equally," he said.

Kennedy is the most vocal member of the Rhode Island delegation in both his support for same-sex unions and his willingness to defy the Catholic Church on the issue.

Kennedy dismisses the distinction between civil unions and gay marriage as merely semantics. But other members of the delegation say it's a significant difference in the eyes of many Americans, saying marriage should remain exclusively between a man and a woman.

Vermont, the only state to recognize same-sex unions, established a separate legal code for same-sex or "civil" unions. Vermont does not call them marriages, but affords the same rights to homosexual couples as heterosexual couples.

U.S. Sen. Jack Reed, who also is a Catholic, said he supports extending legal protections and benefits to same-sex couples, but does not sanction gay marriage. U.S. Rep. James R. Langevin, a Catholic, supports same-sex unions, but not gay marriage.

Likewise, U.S. Sen. Lincoln Chafee, an Episcopalian, said he supports civil unions, but not marriage for gays and lesbians, saying the country is not ready to call it by that name.

Kennedy sent out a news release last week, announcing his position. Other delegation members, while supporting same-sex unions, said the debate in Washington should focus more on high unemployment and the war in Iraq than a divisive issue such as gay marriage.

President Bush raised the issue last week during a rare Rose Garden news conference, saying White House lawyers were looking to ensure that the term "marriage" apply only to men and women.

The Vatican followed the next day with a statement that urged all Catholic lawmakers to oppose same-sex unions.

The 1996 Defense of Marriage Act prohibits federal recognition of gay marriages.

But Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, a Tennessee Republican, has said he wants to go one step further and propose a constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage.

Frist has said a constitutional amendment could be necessary to ban gay marriages if more states approve same-sex unions.

It's not the first time Kennedy has clashed with the Catholic Church. In the past, he has bucked the church with his support for abortion rights and calling for the ordination of female priests.

On the issue of gay rights, Kennedy said the church has strayed from its teachings. "The church has its doctrines. I don't agree with this doctrine. I don't agree with many others," he said.

Kennedy continued a short time later: "The very foundation of the church is about love," he said. "This notion of discrimination is so far afield of what Jesus' life was all about."

Kennedy said his Catholic identity is important to him.

"The life of Jesus Christ influences my whole notion of public service," Kennedy said. "It's all about following the example of Jesus, of service, humility and love."

Kennedy continued: "I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

Chafee said he support same-sex unions, but he opposses gay marriage because the country is not ready for this step.

"I am already in favor of civil unions. It doesn't hurt anyone. . . . People feel this is the commitment they want to make. I respect that."

Chafee said he believed that the Supreme Court, in its recent decision striking down a Texas law that prohibited gay sexual activity, opened the way for gay marriage.

The majority opinion in the 6-to-3 ruling in the Texas case does not specifically address the issue of gay marriage, said Yale Law School Prof. William Eskridge Jr., an expert on the law of gay marriage.

But Eskridge said the case could remove a significant legal obstacle to gay marriage, by legalizing sodomy. "The argument was made that if you could put them in jail for sodomy, why would you allow marriage," he said.

Chafee said he hoped this would not become a hot-button political issue in the 2004 election. He believes Washington leaders should instead focus on the economy and national security.

"I recognize this is an issue that can stir up emotionally charged divisions," he said.

Chafee added that he would not support a constitutional amendment to ban gay marriage.

Likewise, Reed said he would oppose any constitutional amendment to ban these unions, which he believes would preempt states from being able to pass their own laws on the issue.

Reed said yesterday that he supports extending the same legal protections to committed gay and lesbian couples as those enjoyed by heterosexual couples. But he said marriage should only apply to men and women.

As a congressman, Reed voted in favor of the 1996 Defense of Marriage Act. Kennedy voted against it. Neither Langevin nor Chafee had been elected to Capitol Hill at the time.

As for the Vatican's edict, Reed said the Catholic Church was an important influence, but not the only influence. "In a pluralistic society, you have to listen to a range of voices," he said.

Langevin said yesterday that he supports recognizing civil unions for gay and lesbian couples, but not calling it marriage.

Speaking from Israel, where he's traveling this week with a group of congressional Democratics, Langevin said that calling these arrangements marriage would cloud the issue, which he views as one of equality under the law.

"At this point, more individuals feel like I do, that same-sex couples should receive the same benefits [as heterosexual couples]," Langevin said.

"When we start talking about marriage, it brings in factors outside the realm of equal rights. It has religious connotations. . . . It brings in an element that divides people instead of bringing people together."

Langevin said in a written statement that the Catholic Church guides his personal life.

"However, I believe in a strong separation in church and state. The greatest influence on an congressperson's decision must be the Constitution and the interests of his or her constituents. "


TOPICS: Extended News; Government; Miscellaneous; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts; US: Rhode Island
KEYWORDS: samesexmarriage; vatican
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"I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

That happens when the little dickens is off his meds.

1 posted on 08/06/2003 7:29:44 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
Exactly, he has to listen to it to get the message because he can't read.

Idiot.
2 posted on 08/06/2003 7:31:12 AM PDT by Bikers4Bush
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To: Liz
Kennedy said his Catholic identity is important to him.

As a moral guide to his conscience? Nah. But it's good for rounding up all the Catholic SHEEPLE votes in Rhode Island.

3 posted on 08/06/2003 7:32:38 AM PDT by TonyRo76
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To: Liz
Holy Father! What does it take to excommunicate a vocal apostate like this?
4 posted on 08/06/2003 7:33:42 AM PDT by wideawake (God bless our brave soldiers and their Commander in Chief)
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To: rdb3; Khepera; elwoodp; MAKnight; condolinda; mafree; Trueblackman; FRlurker; Teacher317; ...
Patrick Kennedy wouldn't know what bigotry was, even if a bonifide bigot walked up and slapped him in the face....

Black conservative ping

If you want on (or off) of my black conservative ping list, please let me know via FREEPmail. (And no, you don't have to be black to be on the list!)

Extra warning: this is a high-volume ping list.

5 posted on 08/06/2003 7:34:04 AM PDT by mhking
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To: Liz
Another Kennedy that should take up flying. The most anti-Catholic Catholic family in the country..
6 posted on 08/06/2003 7:34:08 AM PDT by .45MAN
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To: Liz
We are talking about the law here and whether the law is going to treat people equally here. I don't see where the church or anyone else dictates what the policy is going to be with respect to treating people equally

We are talking about souls here, and whether the church has the authority to ignore the word of God. I don't see where the State(tm) or anyone else has the right to dictate matters of politics to God with respect to entry into heaven.
7 posted on 08/06/2003 7:34:10 AM PDT by sc2_ct
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To: Bikers4Bush
The Kennedys are Cafeteria Catholics.....they choose what they want to believe -- and only what coincides with their political ambitions.
8 posted on 08/06/2003 7:34:20 AM PDT by Liz
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To: mhking
You nailed it but good.
9 posted on 08/06/2003 7:35:39 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
Why aren’t the Kennedys excommunicated?
10 posted on 08/06/2003 7:35:50 AM PDT by tractorman
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To: Liz
Patches is a immature idiot, a disgrace to our state, and to himself!
11 posted on 08/06/2003 7:35:58 AM PDT by aShepard
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To: Liz
Related thread: My Summer Vacation- The visit to Dike Bridge on Chappiquiddick Island, the crime scene.
12 posted on 08/06/2003 7:36:14 AM PDT by 1Old Pro
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To: Liz
He gets a different message because he is following a different gospel and a different Jesus....one of his own making.
13 posted on 08/06/2003 7:36:14 AM PDT by anniegetyourgun
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To: Liz
The Kennedy's are becoming a national joke,why don't they just shut up!!!!!!


They use the Catholic Church,and the church let's them,just for their own political gain.I heard that Fat Ted took communion (after walking from his VIP seat)at the induction of Archbishop O'Malley.Sickening,but the cameras were there for all to see(I didn't watch it myself)




14 posted on 08/06/2003 7:36:43 AM PDT by Mears
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To: Liz
"The life of Jesus Christ influences my whole notion of public service," Kennedy said. "It's all about following the example of Jesus, of service, humility and love."

Kennedy continued: "I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

Want to bet that other than sitting in church during Mass, he hasn't heard or read a single Scripture in his life?

15 posted on 08/06/2003 7:37:05 AM PDT by Pyro7480 (+ Vive Jesus! (Live Jesus!) +)
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To: Liz
Time for a long-overdue Kennedy clan conversion to the Episcopal "Church."
16 posted on 08/06/2003 7:38:19 AM PDT by Chi-townChief
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To: Liz
I see the policy of opposing same-sex marriages or unions, whatever you call it, as bigotry or discrimination

"Whatever you call it", lol, so he doesn't know what to call it either - very telling. I don't know much about this Kennedy but this article makes him appear immature.

We are talking about the law here and whether the law is going to treat people equally here. I don't see where the church or anyone else dictates what the policy is going to be with respect to treating people equally.

But it's God's law. Pat, there's a confessional empty right now.

17 posted on 08/06/2003 7:39:46 AM PDT by mtbopfuyn
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To: Liz
"I see the policy of opposing same-sex marriages or unions, whatever you call it, as bigotry or discrimination"

I guess God is a discriminating bigot then, 'cause He has made His position on same-sex marriages/unions abundantly clear.

18 posted on 08/06/2003 7:40:03 AM PDT by WestPacSailor (All Your Base Are Belong To Us)
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To: anniegetyourgun
Along with that new homosexual Bishop (God really does think it's okay, doncha know), Supreme Court Justice Ginzburg (surfs the net and peruses foreign documents to decide American cases), and those people in NJ who say you can't take the NJ Constitution literally.

People are deluded.
19 posted on 08/06/2003 7:40:33 AM PDT by ladylib
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To: Liz
Yes how dare the Vatican make comments on sinfull lifestyles
Who do they think they are and what is their job description anyway?
20 posted on 08/06/2003 7:40:57 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: tractorman
why arent the Kennedy's excomunicated?
M O N E Y
21 posted on 08/06/2003 7:41:44 AM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: Liz; NYer; Salvation; Polycarp
Kennedy

CINO

22 posted on 08/06/2003 7:42:19 AM PDT by xzins
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To: Liz
The Kennedys are Cafeteria Catholics.....they choose what they want to believe -- and only what coincides with their political ambitions.

Precisely ... and doncha just love it when one of these "Catholic scholars" preaches the "right way" to you?

23 posted on 08/06/2003 7:45:02 AM PDT by glennaro
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To: tractorman; wideawake; CARepubGal
I don't think the Church should excommunicate them and make them "victims."

You know how these self-loathing libs just can't feel good about themselves unless they are in the throes of "victimization" and either 1) causing victims, 2) concocting victims, 3) playing victim, 4) commiserating over victims, or 5) creating another class of victims to bleed over.

Excommunication would propel the Kennedys as "victims" to new political heights.

24 posted on 08/06/2003 7:46:40 AM PDT by Liz
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To: .45MAN
He (PK) and his entire family have been a scandal to the Catholic faith.

A Stranger in a Strange Land, (a conservative orthodox Catholic Rhode Islander),
TM

PS: Please rescue me from this living hell! ;^)
25 posted on 08/06/2003 7:46:52 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Liz
"We are talking about the law here and whether the law is going to treat people equally here."

Gays and straights have an exactly equal right to marry someone of the opposite sex.

26 posted on 08/06/2003 7:46:56 AM PDT by Sloth ("I feel like I'm taking crazy pills!" -- Jacobim Mugatu, 'Zoolander')
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To: Liz
"I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

What, is this our Public school dollars at work again? Oh, Kennedy probably went to a private school, I forgot.

"You shall not lie with a male as with a woman. It is an abomination."(Leviticus 18:22)
"If a man lies with a male as he lies with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination. They shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."(Leviticus 20:13)
"realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching," (1 Timothy 1:9-10)
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God." (1 Corinthians 6:9-10)

While we like to pick on homosexuality as a "pet" sin, since most of us don't condone it, there is no question the Bible condemns it along with many other sins. Mr. Kennedy needs to read the Bible.
27 posted on 08/06/2003 7:47:36 AM PDT by DittoJed2
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To: Liz
I long for the good old days of ex-communication and interdiction.

Nothing like the threat of eternal damnation to focus ones mind.

28 posted on 08/06/2003 7:48:02 AM PDT by Mike Darancette (Save Traditional Marriage -- It's for the Children!)
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To: TonyRo76
Could a good Catholic honor the catechisms and still vote pro-homosexual and pro-abortion candidates? I don't think so. Some of my relatives are Catholic Christians, instead of catholic politicians. (Then there are the Kennedy positions on adultery, drunkenness,etc; one might as well be Episcopalian.)
29 posted on 08/06/2003 7:48:36 AM PDT by kdf1
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To: Liz
The life of Jesus Christ influences my whole notion of public service," Kennedy said

YOU BIG *^$#&* LIAR!

YOU CHARLATAN

YOU APOSTATE HEATHEN!

YOU ARE A DISGRACE!

30 posted on 08/06/2003 7:51:41 AM PDT by ThomasMore
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To: Liz
Kennedy continued: "I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

Why don't you clowns quit representing yourselves as Roman Catholics?

Starting with Joe, and all the way down through the generations of Kennedys, darn near all of them have given the Catholic Church a black eye because of their behavior.

Hey Pat, I'm thinking the Episcopal Church may be more to your liking...

31 posted on 08/06/2003 7:52:01 AM PDT by TheSpottedOwl (You bring tar, I'll bring feathers....recall Davis in 03!!!)
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To: kdf1
My folks are Catholic. My Dad says (and I agree with him) that these bozos (Kennedy, Leahy, Dasshole etal.) all ought to be excommunicated. That would call them to account in a very public, humbling way.

Of course I doubt many U.S. Catholic bishops would have the guts to do such a thing. Shame, really.

32 posted on 08/06/2003 7:52:17 AM PDT by TonyRo76
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To: Liz


We here on FR are well aware of the danger of corporate pensions not being there when you retire.

Homosexual "life? partner" medical and other benefits is set to bankrupt many large corporations.

Many corporations have already reconsidered and dropped this ultra radical lib coverage.

If gays and lesbians gain legal marriage rights in the USA both corporate pensions and Social Security will go down the tubes, so to speak.


33 posted on 08/06/2003 7:55:54 AM PDT by autoresponder (PETA TERRORISTS .wav file: BRUCE FRIEDRICH: http://tinyurl.com/hjhd)
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To: Mears
..... I heard that Fat Ted took communion.......at the induction of Archbishop O'Malley....

For the sake of argument let's say Teddy asked God for forgiveness for voting pro-abortion, pro-homo, etc, before receiving Communion (after all, none of us knows what's in another person's heart or soul).

God would forgive Teddy but the condition for forgiveness is a promise that you will not commit that sin again.

Teddy has to live with his conscience but the rest of us do not have to put up with the consequences of his anti-moral votes.

34 posted on 08/06/2003 7:58:20 AM PDT by Liz
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To: Liz
This is why Kennedys should not be allowed near booze, I was born black will live black and died black were as homosexuals have chosen their lifestyle.
35 posted on 08/06/2003 8:00:50 AM PDT by Trueblackman (Check out http://www.quixtar.com)
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To: Liz
I don’t think the Catholic Church should concern itself with the political aspirations of the Kennedys. That’s why that church is in such a mess in the first place: selective enforcement of the rules.
36 posted on 08/06/2003 8:00:53 AM PDT by tractorman
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To: TonyRo76
The sheep you speak of are already penned up in the many federally funded elderly high rises. Seniors are the last true voting bloc. This bloc wants major benefits for their vote, Patches and Reed are absolutely shameless in their pandering to them. Most of the people in RI are first, second, or third generation immigrant stock. Most are Catholic. Most still do not understand that the Democratic Party has been hijacked and that it no longer represents the working man, the blue collars, the people who dug ditches and scrubbed floors so that their children could have The American Dream. The old time Democrats didn't question, they just believed. That was then...this is now.

Kennedy and Reed are "confirmed bachelors". Anything that either has to say on this subject should be viewed with a jaundiced eye.
37 posted on 08/06/2003 8:07:54 AM PDT by ishabibble
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To: Liz
Kennedy continued: "I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."

It appears that Kennedy is a Protestant. He favors his readings of scripture over the edicts of Rome.

They really should excommunicate him. But then, Rome won't do anything to jeopardize the American money stream, a financial bulwark for Rome. Same thing probably applies to the Anglicans who, I suspect, rely upon Episcopalians for a lot of their money.
38 posted on 08/06/2003 8:12:00 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: dubyaismypresident
this dweeb absolutely fries my butt. GO BE AN EPISCOPALIAN for God's sake! where is your tagline, dubs? you need to bring it back just for this thread!
39 posted on 08/06/2003 8:13:25 AM PDT by xsmommy
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To: Liz; NYer; narses; Loyalist
Oh, my...liberal Catholics ALERT! Haven't the Kennedys had enough sexual problems?

Liberals really need to get their story straight here. They used to whine about "the privacy of the bedroom" when killing unborn children was the focus of their agenda. They would lecture everyone that "you can't legislate morality!" Now with sodomy they want it all public and open rather than "private" and kept "in the bedroom."

Even that prince of sanctimony, John Kerry, has jumped into the public fight with the Vatican over sodomy... Considering that Kerry is now apostate from two major world religions, one wonders if he isn't a good candidate for the Antichrist [IRONY]... Well, they can't have it both ways. If they want "privacy of the bedroom" for infanticide but a PUBLIC campaign to legitimate sodomy as normal and on the same level as marriage which everyone must accept, they are going to have to get used to being exposed as moral morons of illogical reasoning.

New slogan - "Let's keep anal sex safe, legal, and PRIVATE!" We'll all feel better not having to hear about it every day.

40 posted on 08/06/2003 8:18:26 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: sc2_ct
Precisely. It is God's call to accept and or to forgive.It's not man's responsibility to accept. Man certainly can't forgive as only God ultimately has that card. The clear interpretation of the Bible is that two individuals of the same sex shall not lie down together. This is a perversion of the species. If permitted, the species would die off. Only God has the power to forgive and ,I am just guessing, forgive provided forgiveness has been requested by the offender
41 posted on 08/06/2003 8:25:11 AM PDT by mict42
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To: Liz; NYer
Here's a suggestion for conservatives in the media. When referring to these advocates of sodomy, they should be mentioned as follows.

"Anal sex enthusiast, Patrick Kennedy, announced today a new frontier in moral theology...."

His bishop should be given how long to issue this brat a citation...???

42 posted on 08/06/2003 8:25:23 AM PDT by HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
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To: Liz
**The Kennedys are Cafeteria Catholics.....they choose what they want to believe -- and only what coincides with their political ambitions. **...

Excellent post.
43 posted on 08/06/2003 8:28:35 AM PDT by jhw61
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To: Liz
A little poll-FReeping help, please.....

CNN poll on gay "marriage"

44 posted on 08/06/2003 8:30:03 AM PDT by TheGrimReaper (o)(o)
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To: Mears
Actually, news reports indicated that Ted the Swimmer had the effrontery to show up to be photoed and slipped out before the Offertory. Ketchupboy Kerry received the Eucharist from someone other than Archbishop O'Malley which is just as much of a sacrilege as it would have been for Ted the Swimmer.

You want real abuse? How about the Arkansas Antichrist receiving the Holy Eucharist of the Roman Catholic Church on live TV at Vince Foster's funeral Mass from the hands of the bishop or archbishop of Little Rock? That Slick and the bishop did not instantly go into ultra-agonizing death throes then and there is one more proof of the mercy of God.

AND, in the nerve department, we have Patches bleating about how he is Catholic because "It's all about.....humility....." Laugh, I thought I'd die! For those who wish, I bet that Boston Herald columnist Howie Carr will have the definitive word on Patches' "Catholicism" in a column today or tomorrow.

45 posted on 08/06/2003 8:33:34 AM PDT by BlackElk ( So long Uday and Qucay! Dad should be right along any day!)
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To: Liz
Is this the Kennedy who was recently quoted as shouting out (drunkenly) I have never worked a f***ing day in my life?
46 posted on 08/06/2003 8:38:30 AM PDT by Rummyfan
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To: Liz; Mears; Salvation; Domestic Church; sandyeggo; HowlinglyMind-BendingAbsurdity
..... I heard that Fat Ted took communion.......at the induction of Archbishop O'Malley....

Kennedy and Kerry were both in attendance. The media, always eager to draw new blood, asked O'Malley for the church's position on distributing communion to politicians who support abortion. O'Malley responded with:

"BOSTON (CNS) -- Boston Archbishop Sean Patrick O'Malley has stated that Catholic politicians who support legal abortion should not receive Communion of their own volition, but the church does not deny Communion to people approaching the altar, presuming they do so in "good faith." The Boston Archdiocese issued a July 29 statement outlining the new archbishop's position in response to a Boston Globe article. A July 27 Globe article discussed a 1992 controversy involving a Catholic politician who backed legal abortion when Archbishop O'Malley headed the Diocese of Fall River, Mass."

Kennedy and Kerry had prime seats. Kennedy, however, left the cathedral before the Offertory. Kerry remained and received communion, but not from O'Malley.

There was an extremely heated discussion on this event in the Religion Forum. We, as catholics, would have preferred that Kerry listen to his conscience and either leave with Kennedy or remain seated during communion. However, the event marked the Induction of O'Malley as Archbishop of Boston. His laser beam was focused on the victims of the abuse scandal and his humble message was directed towards them. Kerry used poor judgement, IMHO; more than likely, O'Malley will have a little heart to heart with him at a time of his choosing.

Excellent post, Liz!

47 posted on 08/06/2003 8:45:09 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: Liz
--Kennedy continued: "I am speaking to you as someone who when I hear the Scripture, I get a very different message of what Jesus was teaching me than what the church seems to be representing."--

Makes me wonder if he ever actually listened while he was sober.
48 posted on 08/06/2003 8:45:13 AM PDT by fml
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To: Rummyfan
Wasn't that a great story? I laughed like a hyena over it.
49 posted on 08/06/2003 8:49:27 AM PDT by utahagen
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To: tractorman
Why aren’t the Kennedys excommunicated?
Money.
50 posted on 08/06/2003 8:54:05 AM PDT by wjcsux
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