Posted on 08/06/2003 12:20:52 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Silly season is right. Or left. Or something...
Why don't you just try answering them?
Can't read somebody's mind. What American counterparts of what foreign ideologies and what hypocrisy?
I don't understand why my questions are making you so angry.
Angry? I'm not mad at you, I'm responding, bluntly, in kind, to your strange imaginings.
They are honest questions about an actual phenomenon. Are you perhaps interpreting my questions as an attack on FR or conservatism?
I think you're attacking libertarians in general.
First, I have been a FReeper a long time and second, the people I am criticizing are among the biggest FR-haters around. They talk about you all the time so why shouldn't I ask you for your opinions as to why their ideology twists and turns the way it does?
"They" talk about me to you? Who's they?
I'm sorry, but if this doesn't placate you somewhat then I don't know what to do. I'm not attacking you or any FReeper (except for jerks like "JohnGalt") and I fail to understand your hostility.
'JohnGalt', imo, has always posted from a sound, well reasoned POV. Pretty bizarro attack, ZC.
I doubt very seriously if JimRob would allow any hyperlinks here, but I will give you the URL's to some of these sites (and hope they don't get pulled anyway).
www.FriendsOfLiberty.com (the one that started it all).
www.originaldissent.com
www.libertyforum.com
www.jbs.org (the one I used to be a member of)
www.thenewamerican.com (its current magazine)
www.welchreport.com (dissafected Birchers who want to blame the "conspiracy" directly on the "Zionists" and want the Society to endorse chr*stianity. Not too long ago it featured many nasty anti-Israel and anti-Jewish headlines as well as explicit attack on "Zionism," but I had a nice e-mail correspondence with the head guy and this has been mitigated somewhat. I advise that you look at old archived articles/press releases for what I'm talking about.)
www.alanstang.com (the man whose rhetoric got me into the Society but who now blames American interventionism directly on the "Zionists"--this was not at his site but at the Welch Report site. You'll have to click on archived articles at www.welchreport.com to read it).
www.revilo-oliver.com (Oliver was one of the original founders of the small government, libertarian JBS but who later became an out-and-out national socialist, going on about "aryans" and so forth. If there is no connection whatsoever between fascism/national socialism and the right, why did he go from JBS to racialism? Why didn't he come from the Communist movement instead? Obviously he thought that the original purpose of JBS was consonant with national socialism but had been hijacked.)
These are but a few of what can be found on the web. More can be found with any web search. I simply am asking my fellow FReepers what is wrong with these people who attack President Bush (and US) as "war mongers" when they have no trouble with war-mongering as long as it's by the "right" people. Are they not hypocrites to attack us? What is your interpretation of this phenomenon?
Pinochet is a hero. He did what Hitler's generals should have done. Which is why Lady Thatcher awarded him an Armada Cup.
Its too bad. There was good potential here as it begans to autopsy the American political scenme as it is relevant to world politics.
American View = Individual rights, Property rights, Constitutional Primacy, Phliosophy of Life, Capitalism = Right!
World View = Human Rights, Global Justice(?), Statist, Totalitarian Authority, Pragmatism, Collectivism, Death = Left.
Ping me if it comes up again in a more productive forum.
Not to mention extending the courtesy of pinging someone to a post on which you're attacking them.
Pinochet is a hero. He did what Hitler's generals should have done. Which is why Lady Thatcher awarded him an Armada Cup.
I do not disagree with any of this. But is it not hypocritical for people who justify Pinochet's methods to mercilessly attack President Bush and we FReepers for doing the same thing with regard to the terrorist forces that are infiltrating us? These people who never raised a peep at Pinochet want Bush's hide because he is creating a "police state!" Isn't it obvious that these people have no trouble with police states when created by "the right people?"
My attacks are on hypocrisy, not anti-Communism. As a matter of fact I think anti-Communists in other countries (Chiang Kai-shek eg) were far more enlightened than the American right wing, which wishes to wed anti-Communism to social darwinism, whereas Chiang fought all his life for the "Three Principals of the People." But that does not mitigate the hypocrisy of some of his admirers who applaud what he did but would have died rather than see such policies in America.
World View = Human Rights, Global Justice(?), Statist, Totalitarian Authority, Pragmatism, Collectivism, Death = Left.
Where do Franco and Salazar fit in this little dualism of yours? Or will you attack me for asking?
A true political scale would have absolute tyranny on the left end and absolute anarchy on the right end (or vice-versa, doesn't matter).
In the middle you would have a perfect balance, i.e., a Constitutional Republic, rule of law, separation of powers, limited government. In other words, what the Framers gave us.
So when the media characterizes "Constitutionalists" as "extreme right wingers" they are engaging in deliberate propaganda, knowingly.
Your questions haven't offended me at all. I thought you were looking for a give and take, as offered by many.
You haven't responded in that spirit.
In fact, I'm getting a whiff of "he done me wrong."
One way to avoid becoming disaffected by groups is to avoid them.
Just an observation from my journey.
I do not attack libertarians who advocate libertarianism and peace at all times and in all places. I do attack a certain type of libertarian who attacks his own government as a "police state" for doing things he justifies when other people do them in other countries. I'm sorry if you're one of those libertarians.
'JohnGalt', imo, has always posted from a sound, well reasoned POV. Pretty bizarro attack, ZC.
When someone calling himself "tpaine" defends someone who continually thumps J*sus you know you've stumbled onto strange territory. Perhaps your and his chr*stianity is that deistic Jeffersonian brand that has been freed of all polluting Jewish influence?
Well said.
That is essentially it. The John Birch Society told me that fascism and communism were both on the left. So why is it that whenever people admire Mussolini or Franco or Salazar or Peron that they are always shooting off their bazoos about "limited constitutional government" and attacking "neocons" as "big government conservatives?" Obviously the Society lied to me. I was being manipulated. The extreme right, whatever its libertarian public posture, seems to be a brainwashing machine for turning people into fascist sympathizers (fascism in other countries that is), all the while attacking their own country as "communist" for doing the same things!
I am sorry if my own personal experience with these people does not allow me an objective stance.
If this was the 'movement' you are so worried about, you can now rest your weary head.
I want to know why they are not advocating here what they support elsewhere. I want to know why, if "fascism is on the left," these people aren't attacking the communists and claiming to be "the true left" instead of attacking us and claiming to be "the true right!"
Oh, and I would suggest if you continue to maintain fascism as a rightist philosphy you answer the hordes of posts with proof of the opposite in this very thread.
Then why aren't all the apologists for foreign fascism ex-communists instead of ex-Birchers? That's all I want to know.
I'm sorry your world was so small and informed your opinions.
There are many hands being offered here as an antidote, but you seem to be resisting or not listening.
Including self defense?
If have read my posts at all (including the original one) then you cannot make this statement with a straight face.
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