I have a question, and I'd really like an answer

Vanity | 08/06/03 | Zionist Conspirator

[Zionist Conspirator]

As many of you folks know, I used to be a John Bircher. I just followed a link to an article on the recent death of Dan Smoot and found another one of "those" sites--you know the kind--that pictures President Bush as a sort of Mao Tse-tung-style dictator and that prattles endlessly on and on about "liberty" and how America is a "police state" (along with loads of attacks on Israel and citations of anti-Israel UN resolutions, of course).

Now here's what I want to know and this is not a rhetorical question. I recently did a web search on the Japanese right wing (seeing as how this is august) and found a page claiming that many unemployed Japanese, like their "European counterparts," seek an answer to their plight in "right wing authoritarianism." SO WHAT THE DING-DONG IS IT WITH THE AMERICAN "FAR RIGHT???" Why do our counterparts of the Carlists, the Falangists, the Peronistas, the national syndicalists, the royalists/monarchists, etc., put on tricorner hats and constantly thump the Bill of Rights? I don't get it.

I realize that a facile answer is that the American "far right" is simply different from that of other countries, but I think that's a little shallow. As I said, these people are our counterparts of rightwing statists elsewhere, and just as Bush-hating American leftists never compare Bush unfavorably to Castro (their "anarchist" hero), so the hyperlibertarian American "far right" never compares Bush to their "Jeffersonian" heroes (Pinochet, Trujillo, Franco, Peron, Salazar, Vargas, Chiang, etc.). In fact, they seem as blind to the policies of these leaders as their leftist counterparts are to the fascism of Castro, Ho, Mao, etc. What is it with America that our left and right are so different from everyone else's (the left in other countries is militantly nationalistic and advocates military buildups, for example).

Is it simply that "Ron Paul is to Trujillo as Pete Seeger is to Joseph Stalin?" Is that it? And if so, WHY???

Do any of these "principled" Bush-haters who compare him to Communist dictators believe that their precious Bill of Rights was applied in the Dominican Republic under Trujillo, Spain under Franco, or Chile under Pinochet? And why do American "far rightists" espouse a rhetoric that sounds like leftist "rights" ideology restricted to guns, property, and tobacco?

I don't get any of this! Except of course that JBS hero Dan Smoot would be a hero to such a site. I have learned so much about my old "comrades" who used to piously preach that "fascism and communism are basically the same." They obviously meant only fascism where it had been defeated in WWII and discredited.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not criticizing these foreign rightist leaders from a leftist perspective (in fact, it is the very un-rightist like commitment to social Darwinism among the fans of Chiang Kai-shek that really drives me crazy). But I do think people who support such systems in other parts of the world should be consistent enough to advocate a related ideological program for the US instead of acting as if Franco were Ayn Rand's son. And I most assuredly believe people who worship Pinochet while condemning Bush are hypocrites, just as are their Castr-worshipping apologists on the left.

Natuarlly, one thing these domestic and foreign "right wingers" have in common (among the groups, not necessarily among the leaders mentioned above) is an implacable hostility to Israel. Illogic is really quite predictable, isn't it?

[Zionist Conspirator]

I do not post this to start an argument with either libertarian capitalists or "palaeos," but because I sincerely do not understand the hypocrisy of American counterparts of foreign ideologies that are so different. Does anyone have any ideas as to what lies behind this phenomenon???

[AppyPappy]

Mostly it boils down to a dislike for Jews and a love for conspiracies that they see as the "hidden truth". The hatred of Jews is just a familiar relic like a security blanket. The conspiracies make them feel like they are above the ignorant masses.

[swilhelm73]

I'm not sure I get your point.

Most libertarians would not look too fondly on any of the foreign 'rightists' you mention like Pinochet.

Though the LP itself is really only concerned with drug legalization, libertarianism as a philosophy demands a very weak central government with precious little control over the economy or society, thin the US or UK circa 1880.

As for the tie between fascism and communism, they are, of course closely related. The former is National Socialism, the latter International Socialism. Consider that Mussolini, essentially the creator of modern fascism broke with the socialist ranks over the question of nationalism, not some deep ideological divide.

This difference is fairly important on some levels, but for those living under either system the difference is unnoticeable.

[thoughtomator]

Do we actually have 'counterparts' in other nations? As far as I know, this is the only nation founded on the concept of liberty.

[Madame Dufarge]

Thank you.

I thought it was just me.....

[1rudeboy]

One possible explanation is that the folks who have no understanding of "foreign" politics, parliamentary democracy, or civil law, etc., (indeed, who revel in their ignorance of these subjects) are the same folks who will jump at the opportunity to label their opposition in decidedly "foreign" terms. Thus, all French are socialists, and the pronouncements of a German Minister are the official position of the German government.

[Conspiracy Guy]

I'm with both of you.

[elhombrelibre]

The similarities, in my view, between fascism and communism, come from things like their rejection of capitalist democracy, their willingness to empower a special class of the all-knowing to rule, their use of police to suppress dissent, the all to logical prison camps and death camps that follow. Their followers become true believers (see Eric Hoffer’s book – The True Believer). Fascism glorifies violence and race more than communism. Communism glorifies the worker in theory so that it appears to adhere to its origin in Marx’s and Engel’s writings. Both are despicable since they stereotype groups over the individual and in practice are simply about giving power to violent eggheads.

[JesseHousman]

...many unemployed Japanese...

...commit suicide. 32,000 last year alone.

[1rudeboy]

Take replies 4, 5, and 7, for example. As if the French Revolution never happened.

[Salman]

Far right means very conservative. Very conservative means do things the way we did them back in the idealized partly mythical good old days.

In Europe that means aristocratic privilege and despotism.

In America that means the ideal of liberty.

[big bad easter bunny]

You have your rights and lefts all mixed up! The right in this country are the conservatives, conservative with the truth and the Constitution, the left are the liberals, liberal with the truth and liberal with other peoples money! Every thing else! Don't let people who have decided to foregt or just plain ignore history allow these words to be used in any way they like.

[Mr.Atos]

Could the answer also lie in the oversimplification of typologies? The 2 (well, 2.5) party system, while quite effective, tends to unify groups with varying ideologies under the same political banner. Hence, we get 'traditional' liberals (champions of small government and the primacy of individual rights) in the camp with modern leftists (statist, collectivists). At the same time you get political Conservatives (dedicated to traditional Judeo-Christian values and Constitutional integrity) sharing an umbrella with Libertarians, Objectivists, and others. Many Libertarians view the Bush administration as the worst thing since Stalin. While the Objectivists rise to the level of their ideological integrity to recognize that the only two dishes on the table are food and poison... food being the rational choice for those that value life. Hence the overwhelming support for the actions of this Bush administration from that end of the spectrum. Of that, I think Ms. Rand would approve.

Unfortunately the distribution of Americans underneath the out-moded definitions of existing political monikers is the likely culprit for so much ideological confusion. The only two choices on the table are Individual Rights versus Human Rights. (The ELF's attempts at terrorism notwithstanding there is no third choice, Humans Dead). Human rights (collectivism) favors the management of the population to their the greatest possible benefit for the maximum amount of people... often at the sacrifice of individuals to the benefit of tyrants (eh,Kofi!)

That should make it simple enough. Although I recognize (as do you) that it does not.

[Madame Dufarge]

And why do American "far rightists" espouse a rhetoric that sounds like leftist "rights" ideology restricted to guns, property, and tobacco?

Because this is the trifecta being attacked by the left, hence the appearance of "restriction"?

It pretty much all stems from defense of property rights anyway, the cornerstone.

[swilhelm73]

Well this is a bit tricky though. Conservative in current America want change, change to bring back the best parts of America dumped over the years by the left.

The Left has become profoundly reactionary, wanting to primarily maintain the status quo at all costs. Look at leftist views on abortion, social security, the structure of the media, etc.

This does lead to the Dem's media calling a small government Republican from America and a raving communist lunatic from Russia both conservative of course, but the Dem's media do such for the obvious reasons.

Outside of the UK there are precious few examples of the type of pro-freedom right we have in the US. In most of the world the political contests are truly between international and national socialists when you break it down.

[Mr.Atos]

Certainly we do have counterparts... RE: Prodos, Objectivist Australian web-radio commentator who has been the driving force behind the worldwide Celebrate Capitalism movement. Or Michael Darby of the Darby Report.

www.prodos.com www.mdarby.blogspot.com

[Mr.Atos]

Oops! Let me try those links again...

www.Prodos.com

www.mdarby.blogspot.com

[Madame Dufarge]

Thanks so much for that link.

Bookmarked in my "All is not Lost" folder.

[Mr.Atos]

Your most welcome.

I think I got Darby's wrong, however. Try this... http://mdarby.blogspot.com/

[Mr.Atos]

Curse my giant fingers!!!!!!

http://mdarby.blogspot.com/