[Zionist Conspirator]

I do not post this to start an argument with either libertarian capitalists or "palaeos," but because I sincerely do not understand the hypocrisy of American counterparts of foreign ideologies that are so different. Does anyone have any ideas as to what lies behind this phenomenon???

[AppyPappy]

Mostly it boils down to a dislike for Jews and a love for conspiracies that they see as the "hidden truth". The hatred of Jews is just a familiar relic like a security blanket. The conspiracies make them feel like they are above the ignorant masses.

[swilhelm73]

I'm not sure I get your point.

Most libertarians would not look too fondly on any of the foreign 'rightists' you mention like Pinochet.

Though the LP itself is really only concerned with drug legalization, libertarianism as a philosophy demands a very weak central government with precious little control over the economy or society, thin the US or UK circa 1880.

As for the tie between fascism and communism, they are, of course closely related. The former is National Socialism, the latter International Socialism. Consider that Mussolini, essentially the creator of modern fascism broke with the socialist ranks over the question of nationalism, not some deep ideological divide.

This difference is fairly important on some levels, but for those living under either system the difference is unnoticeable.

[thoughtomator]

Do we actually have 'counterparts' in other nations? As far as I know, this is the only nation founded on the concept of liberty.

[1rudeboy]

One possible explanation is that the folks who have no understanding of "foreign" politics, parliamentary democracy, or civil law, etc., (indeed, who revel in their ignorance of these subjects) are the same folks who will jump at the opportunity to label their opposition in decidedly "foreign" terms. Thus, all French are socialists, and the pronouncements of a German Minister are the official position of the German government.

[JesseHousman]

...many unemployed Japanese...

...commit suicide. 32,000 last year alone.

[1rudeboy]

Take replies 4, 5, and 7, for example. As if the French Revolution never happened.

[Salman]

Far right means very conservative. Very conservative means do things the way we did them back in the idealized partly mythical good old days.

In Europe that means aristocratic privilege and despotism.

In America that means the ideal of liberty.

[big bad easter bunny]

You have your rights and lefts all mixed up! The right in this country are the conservatives, conservative with the truth and the Constitution, the left are the liberals, liberal with the truth and liberal with other peoples money! Every thing else! Don't let people who have decided to foregt or just plain ignore history allow these words to be used in any way they like.

[Mr.Atos]

Could the answer also lie in the oversimplification of typologies? The 2 (well, 2.5) party system, while quite effective, tends to unify groups with varying ideologies under the same political banner. Hence, we get 'traditional' liberals (champions of small government and the primacy of individual rights) in the camp with modern leftists (statist, collectivists). At the same time you get political Conservatives (dedicated to traditional Judeo-Christian values and Constitutional integrity) sharing an umbrella with Libertarians, Objectivists, and others. Many Libertarians view the Bush administration as the worst thing since Stalin. While the Objectivists rise to the level of their ideological integrity to recognize that the only two dishes on the table are food and poison... food being the rational choice for those that value life. Hence the overwhelming support for the actions of this Bush administration from that end of the spectrum. Of that, I think Ms. Rand would approve.

Unfortunately the distribution of Americans underneath the out-moded definitions of existing political monikers is the likely culprit for so much ideological confusion. The only two choices on the table are Individual Rights versus Human Rights. (The ELF's attempts at terrorism notwithstanding there is no third choice, Humans Dead). Human rights (collectivism) favors the management of the population to their the greatest possible benefit for the maximum amount of people... often at the sacrifice of individuals to the benefit of tyrants (eh,Kofi!)

That should make it simple enough. Although I recognize (as do you) that it does not.

[Madame Dufarge]

And why do American "far rightists" espouse a rhetoric that sounds like leftist "rights" ideology restricted to guns, property, and tobacco?

Because this is the trifecta being attacked by the left, hence the appearance of "restriction"?

It pretty much all stems from defense of property rights anyway, the cornerstone.

[Sloth]

I'm not sure I get the premise, either. Perhaps you could post a couple of quotes from (well-known?) 'paleo-libertarians' praising Franco, or something along those lines, as an example. I consider myself a lowercase-'l' libertarian and a far-right winger, but I can't imagine many foreign leaders I could point to with anything but criticism.

[tpaine]

Zionist Conspirator wrote:

"I do not post this to start an argument with either libertarian capitalists or "palaeos," but because I sincerely do not understand the hypocrisy of American counterparts of foreign ideologies that are so different. Does anyone have any ideas as to what lies behind this phenomenon???"
____________________________________


There is no "phenomenon" as you see it. You are hallucinating positions for 'people' that do not exist.

Get some rest, then seek help.

[breakem]

If you understand measures of central tendencies and standard deviation you'll not be surprised at the various voiews which are out there.

[OPS4]

Karl Marx started with a planned left wing Utopia on the only to have it hijacked by the interpetation
of Hegel's theory of the dialectic, Totalitarian,
world domination.

The war mongers thought Hegel had a great ideal, and
decided to use it so they would become the rulers of the
world.

The problem is from the very inception of the concept of
communism, it ignored one fact that was most important,
it took away man's right to choose.

It is said that God made us all with a free will, so we
can choose on our own between good and evil, the minute
man thinks he can ignore God and do better, evil
triumphs every time.

Israel must live by the rule of the God of Abraham,
the right side, or the left wing will take them down the path of ruin.

Ops4 God Bless America!

[Madame Dufarge]

But I do think people who support such systems in other parts of the world should be consistent enough to advocate a related ideological program for the US instead of acting as if Franco were Ayn Rand's son.

Could you give us examples of "people who support such systems in other parts of the world?"

You seem to be making assertions, presented as truth, and arguing from there.

[Madame Dufarge]

Will you be making substantive responses anytime soon?

You're received many well thought-out responses from posters on the issue you've raised (myself excluded), but no rebuttals.

[Madame Dufarge]

Illogic is really quite predictable, isn't it?

By their own words....

[RightWhale]

hypocrisy of American counterparts of foreign ideologies that are so different

Can't read somebody's mind. What American counterparts of what foreign ideologies and what hypocrisy?

[DPB101]

Pinochet was a general fighting a war. His country was being invaded by Czech Stb agents, East German Stasi and Cuban Secret Police. Allende had trashed the Chilean constitution. The parliament, the barrios and the middle class were demanding action. One cannot compare wartime necessities to conservative ideology. Pinochet did transition the country to a free market and did voluntary cede power. Those actions are very conservative. Btw...today Chile has more direct American investment than all the other countries in South and Central America combined.

Pinochet is a hero. He did what Hitler's generals should have done. Which is why Lady Thatcher awarded him an Armada Cup.

[handk]

The answer is simple. You're using a false political scale. A true scale measures opposites.

A true political scale would have absolute tyranny on the left end and absolute anarchy on the right end (or vice-versa, doesn't matter).

In the middle you would have a perfect balance, i.e., a Constitutional Republic, rule of law, separation of powers, limited government. In other words, what the Framers gave us.

So when the media characterizes "Constitutionalists" as "extreme right wingers" they are engaging in deliberate propaganda, knowingly.