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Expect a Catholic exodus
National Post ^ | 08/07/03 | Hugo Gurdon

Posted on 08/07/2003 12:42:11 AM PDT by swilhelm73

WASHINGTON - A profound and lasting realignment is likely soon to take place in American politics. Catholics, who for historical reasons have largely voted Democrat, will abandon the party in droves (just as social liberals have been, and are, abandoning the Church).

The realignment has been a long time coming. But it is unlikely to be possible any longer to ignore the fact that Church doctrine is incompatible with the policies of the party of the left.

At the general level, the Church insists on personal responsibility for individual actions, whereas the left is more likely to find societal or economic explanations for bad or criminal behaviour. On more specific and (now) non-criminal issues, Catholic doctrine holds that abortion and homosexual coupling are grave sins.

These two issues have become touchstones for modern Democrats. No one who hopes to be the party's presidential nominee can any longer admit to any doubt about a woman's right to choose to have an abortion.

There is more latitude on gay rights, but not much. Some Democratic presidential candidates do not endorse gay marriage, but they are finding it increasingly difficult to persuade the party's grassroots that they are genuinely committed to homosexual equality.

These two issues will likely figure in the 2004 election.

Senate Democrats are furious about a political advertisement that began airing last month that suggests they have a no-Catholic-need-apply litmus test for nominees to the federal judiciary.

The nomination in question is that of Bill Pryor, Attorney-General of Alabama, who opposes abortion both because he is as an orthodox Catholic and because as a constitutional expert, he believes the Supreme Court's 1973 Roe v. Wade ruling was an abominable piece of jurisprudence.

Democrats would also doubtless seek to block the nomination of a Protestant who opposed abortion, so the charge of anti-Catholicism is imprecise. But as the commentator, Ramesh Ponnuru, has pointed out, Democrats certainly operate a beliefs test that amounts to this: No one who opposes abortion rights is suitable to be a federal appellate judge.

Thus, anyone who accepts Catholic teaching on abortion is unacceptable. Senators Patrick Leahy and Dick Durbin, among others, have denounced this suggestion as a calumny. But what really riles them is not that the suggestion is false, but that it is true. And being true, it is politically dangerous.

Democrats gathered pro-abortion Catholics, including a priest, on Capitol Hill last week and assailed what they claim is an intolerant smear. But no matter how they wriggle, the irreducible fact is this: If you accept Church doctrine you cannot take the Democratic position on abortion; indeed you must oppose it.

That may be a good reason to abandon the Church, but the Democrats cannot have it both ways. And since Catholics account for about one-quarter of the American electorate and have traditionally voted Democrat, this is a serious problem for the party. The Democrats have pushed the socially liberal agenda to the point where it excludes a vast number of long-time supporters.

U.S. President George Bush polls well among Catholics; his moral clarity appeals to many of them. And he has come to prominence at a time when the Democrats are making it difficult for faithful Catholics to vote for them with their eyes open.

Similarly with the issue of gay marriage, Bush and the Republican Party offer orthodox Catholics a natural political home. Senior congressional Republicans are considering a constitutional amendment to protect marriage as an exclusively heterosexual institution. Last week, in his final press conference before the summer recess, Bush appeared to support such a move and stated unequivocally that he regarded marriage as the union of a man with a woman -- nothing else.

And the Vatican was more challenging than ever on Thursday when the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith proclaimed: "The Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition [to homosexual marriage] clearly and publicly and to vote against it. To vote in favour of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral."

Thus, we are at the point where the mutual exclusivity of the Catholic and Democratic views has become impossible for intellectually honest people to ignore. Many people of good conscience are therefore leaving the Church, and many people of good conscience will leave the Democrats.

No political party should claim morality or religiosity for itself. Politicians rarely get away with even a hint that they are more Christian or religious or moral than their opponents. Voters punish such arrogance.

But voters also have the freedom to consider such matters, and they will find it difficult not to do so. The millions and millions of voting Catholics have never before been presented so clearly with a choice between their traditional political preference and their faith.


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: 2004; abortion; billpryor; catholic; catholiclist; catholicvote; dems; homosexualagenda; pryor; realignment
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To: lentulusgracchus
Actually, there was another stepchild of Darwinism that had specific Communist and Stalinist affinities, and that was Lysenkoism,

What you say is correct, although it makes the darwinists on FR grind their teeth.

21 posted on 08/07/2003 4:28:24 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: Bluntpoint
On CBS right now there is evidence that the cover up of church scandals came from rome.

Why are you going from thread to thread with this line? Looking for an early morning brawl to start your day off?

22 posted on 08/07/2003 4:29:32 AM PDT by Dataman
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To: Neanderthal
" No one with a brain can be a Catholic and a Democrat at the same time."

Actually that should read "No one who professes to follow the Word of Christ can also claim to be a Democrat".
23 posted on 08/07/2003 4:29:39 AM PDT by txzman (Jer 23:29)
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To: swilhelm73
Catholics, who for historical reasons have largely voted Democrat,...

That is a source of guilt that Catholics thrive on, for some reason.

24 posted on 08/07/2003 4:32:37 AM PDT by Consort
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To: swilhelm73
Expect a Catholic "exodus"

No ... This is not where my screen name came from, but it applies here as well.

25 posted on 08/07/2003 4:36:05 AM PDT by MassExodus
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To: Bluntpoint
On CBS right now there is evidence that the cover up of church scandals came from Rome.

That's the news I thought the headline of this article was referring to, predicting an "exodus" from the Church. It's hard to believe that many members of the Catholic laity haven't known about predatory priests for years and went along with the hush-up. It's only now, when lawyers can get fat judgements against the Church, that the cases are being revealed.

26 posted on 08/07/2003 5:16:48 AM PDT by Misterioso
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To: BlackElk
I wonder if the author is right. I don't really believe that RCs are going to abandon the Dims in great numbers. Somehow, I don't see it happening. I expect an even greater rise of cafeteriaism among RCs instead. Especially on the the east coast or among union members in what remains of the industrial Midwest.
27 posted on 08/07/2003 5:25:34 AM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: lentulusgracchus
...it's becoming increasingly difficult for anyone who's a deist.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If you're referencing the Founding Fathers, then I think I catch your drift, but if you are categorizing Catholicism as deism, then that's incorrect.
28 posted on 08/07/2003 6:36:51 AM PDT by non-anonymous
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To: ChrisCoolC
I was going out further and saying anyone this side of outright agnosticism would have trouble with the Dems.

Scientism, materialism, atheism, etc., are all on the other side of the divide.

29 posted on 08/07/2003 6:58:46 AM PDT by lentulusgracchus (Usquequo, Domine?)
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To: livius; Liz
I suspect that the Dems are going too far now, even for the foggiest minded Catholic (unless his name is Kennedy).

The problem with most voters, be they catholic, christian, jewish, atheist, etc. is that too often, their votes are cast based on "sound bites". My aging parents are a good example of how they 'receive' news. While my father will question what he is being fed by the major networks, he forgets to watch Fox News for a more balanced view. My mother, on the other hand, buys into "the language of cute Katie Couric." She (my mother) stunned me recently by unleashing a vitriolic attack on the president, basing her assessment of his performance on 'direct feed' from the likes of The Today Show. Like my father, she is programmed into watching and LISTENING to one-sided, liberal journalists.

There are a good number of conservative voting Catholics, just as there are conservative Jews and christians from various denominations. They will complain vociferously about the decline of propriety in the US, and shake their fists at politicians who have 'let them down'. But, on election day, once inside the voting booth, it seems their arms are 'hard-wired' to the Democrat line.

30 posted on 08/07/2003 7:23:12 AM PDT by NYer (Laudate Dominum)
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To: swilhelm73
Democrats gathered pro-abortion Catholics, including a priest, on Capitol Hill last week and assailed what they claim is an intolerant smear.

I didn't see the report on this. Anyone know if it was posted on FreeRepublic?

31 posted on 08/07/2003 7:57:25 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: NYer
I remember a recent poll that found that one in four women had the positions on abrotion between the two parties confused, and something like only haf new the current state of abortion legality in this country - ie no restrictions whatsoever.

Further, it is not unusual to find people who claim to be pro-choice whose positions are in fact prolife (if weakly s); ie someone might support abortion for rape and incest and serious physical health dangers but not want a total abortion ban and therefore call themselves pro-
choice...even though they aren't.

Now obviously the Democrats and their media try to obscure the issue on a regular basis, a prime example is the campaign against Judge Owens. They label her an extremist just waiting to overturn Roe because she found a Texas minor abortion notification law constitutitional - a position supported by something like 80% of the country as a whole and a good chunk of people who are pro-abortion.

The problem here is that the Reps have never really tried to make much of an issue of abortion, which allows the Dems and their media to continue dissembling and distorting.

I've said it before but if the Reps run pro-life, center/left candidate in NE as opposed to their current pro-abortion left candidates they will win, and further it will increase the number of observant Christians the party gets nationwide. Remember that the abortion party currently gets a majority of the Catholic vote and a sizable minority of even the Evangelical vote.


32 posted on 08/07/2003 10:25:15 AM PDT by swilhelm73
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To: George W. Bush
I was the first Republican in my labor-union Democrat family when I was about 17. The older members of the family followed thereafter because of the moral issues. they will never be comfortable with the union-bashing or the tax cuts for the wealthiest above all else, but they do recognize that we must place first things first. Catholics are no longer the Demonratic Party at prayer.

Guns are important too and so are taxes on the American of ordinary income. We don't send our kids to public schools but we despise what public schools do to other people's kids and through them to our society.

Catholics who attend Church at least weekly are much more likely to vote Republican as revealed by poll after poll. Our pastors are more and more likely to urge us to vote against the Demonrats. Sure, there is a residual rump caucus of aging activist "Peace and Justice" Kumbayas but the good news on them is each day's obituary page.

I believe that you have the instinct that Catholics are not going to move suddenly rightward at the voting booth and you are probably right about that but we are moving and we tend to be a verrrrrrrry stubborn lot. Once we move, we stay moved for a verrrrrry long time unless and until new reasons make for a slow change in momentum. Also, there is more and more momentum towards the GOP.

We are very good allies to have because of that stubbornness. It would help if Rome would appoint bishops more inclined to our pre-Vatican II separatism not because it is not good to have alliances with non-Catholics but because we Catholics must charge our Catholic batteries to maximize the strength and consensus that we can and must bring to the alliance with others. Be patient with us. We're worth waiting for. When we move against the anti-Catholic Catholics like Kerry, Durbin, Leahy, Mikulski, et al., there will be no turning back. Keep an eye on Archbishop Chaput of Denver. He would make a superb cardinal. He is a warrior Capuchin.

As to cafeteria Catholics, they are no more Catholic than those who despise and reject Scripture can claim to be Protestant. Ancestry is not determinative.

Union members are not robots for labor leaders. It is not right to exclude them simply because they look out for their own economic interests any more than we should reject the industrialist for improving his profit. The capital of the labor union member is his or her labor and he or she has the same right to maximize profit as anyone else. Until the Depression, a lot of labor union members, including many leaders, were openly and proudly Republican. It is also true that, as Reagan used to say, we did not abandon the Democrats. They abandoned us. So be it! p> God bless you and yours.

33 posted on 08/07/2003 11:00:29 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs without mercy!)
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To: NYer
Note that it is your mother who is the Democrat and you who are not. This is a generational thing.
34 posted on 08/07/2003 11:02:47 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs without mercy!)
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To: BlackElk
I believe that you have the instinct that Catholics are not going to move suddenly rightward at the voting booth and you are probably right about that but we are moving and we tend to be a verrrrrrrry stubborn lot. Once we move, we stay moved for a verrrrrry long time unless and until new reasons make for a slow change in momentum. Also, there is more and more momentum towards the GOP.

Our archbishop wrote to all in his parish publicly and told them it was anti-Church and anti-life to vote Democrat. 'My' bishop told anyone who joined a pro-abortion or pro-gay group to consider themselves excommunicated. We were one of the three all-Red Bush states in 2000.

RCs registered as Dims have declined in the last few decades according to my voter lists. Now they are far more likely to be Republicans with only a few holdouts, mostly because Mama and Papa were FDR Democrats and they can't bear to change. But, as you observe, that generation is passing.

If your bishops are serious, it can have a powerful impact, especially a moral challenge that is strong enough to get them to switch parties because the Dims are so blatantly anti-Christian. Even our single U.S. senator who is a Dim is generally recognized as one of the most conservative Dims (though not enough for me). Maybe along the lines of Lieberman. But then, anyone is conservative compared to the rest of the Dims.
35 posted on 08/07/2003 5:06:07 PM PDT by George W. Bush
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To: Bluntpoint
Perhaps you haven't heard that the CBS piece was a blatant distortion, a pack of damned lies.

Check out:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/959954/posts
36 posted on 08/07/2003 5:14:46 PM PDT by jackbill
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To: PatrickHenry
To: Nakatu X

nx ...

If you've been raised around that kind of mindset, then, yes, you will think that evolution is the greatest crisis in America today--and I really don't blame some of the more passionaite YECs for thinking that. Not at all.

ph ...


A thoughtful post. One of my concerns is that evolution has the potential to become a huge national issue for Republicans, somewhat like the other "social issues" that already poison the political arena, like abortion, school prayer, affirmative action, etc. Personally, I hate it when politicians at the national level have to get involved with these issues. Especially when it comes to the confirmation of judges. And I think it's ghastly that single-issue voters are motivated only by one of those issues, and not the larger issues of national defense, etc. I would judge it to be a catastrophe if Republicans ever ended up officially taking an anti-evolution position. The social issues should all be resolved at the state level (that's why we have a federal republic), and most of them shouldn't be decided politically at all.


1,353 posted on 08/07/2003 3:04 PM PDT by PatrickHenry (Zero tolerance for provocateurs, trolls, spammers, and disruptors!)


fC ...

' poison the political arena ' ? ? ?
37 posted on 08/07/2003 5:22:55 PM PDT by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: f.Christian
No way (( liberal atheist test - pledge for office )) ...

separation of ideology - religion - whacks --- YES ...

not God !

Something we all should consider is the founding fathers did not escape tyranny to perpetuate another tyranny - MONPOLY ... we were founded upon God AND religious liberty and defending it is our obligation --- EVO liberals have made God and right and wrong - freedom - speech a thought crime and themselves ACLU whacks evolution NAZIS - our overlords - us slaves !

Watch those senate confirmation hearings and if you publicly state your beliefs and sincerity you are vetted - crucified ... there is supposed to be no religious - ideological special interest test or PLEDGE for office and now the supreme court has established a liberal CARTEL - clergy - priesthood - DYNASTY ... abortion - pornography - evolution ONLY ? - gun control - racial - sexual preferences especially !

The founders of our country made it very difficult to depart from and change the rule of law - rights and the constitution and it seems mighty strange we are living under executive orders and supreme court fiats ... that are establishing a lot of anti constitutional repression and tyranny !

If law becomes a compulsory force only ... even if it isn't grevious --- no one will comply out of force and it will incite freedom - REBELLION and the life time of an atheistic nazi police state is very low esp in America !
38 posted on 08/07/2003 5:36:36 PM PDT by f.Christian (evolution vs intelligent design ... science3000 ... designeduniverse.com --- * architecture * !)
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To: swilhelm73
Most of the DemocRat Catholics I know (including some in my family) have similar profiles - older, blue collar, and immigrants or children of immigrants. They either grew up worshiping St. Franklin of Roosevelt or their unions have been pummeling them with "Democrats good, Republicans for the rich" for so long that they can't change.

They've been trained to hate Republicans for so long, that they just instinctively vote 'rat. I know guys that are pro-gun, pro-life, and overall conservative people and they still voted for Clinton and Gore, and will probably vote for whatever the 'rats put up in 2004.

Every few years, I see the father of a friend of mine at a picnic or some function - he's in his 60's - and every time I see him he is still complaining about Ronald Reagan!

39 posted on 08/07/2003 5:38:09 PM PDT by Mannaggia l'America
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To: swilhelm73; GatorGirl; maryz; *Catholic_list; afraidfortherepublic; Antoninus; Aquinasfan; ...
Ping.
40 posted on 08/23/2003 6:46:54 AM PDT by narses ("The do-it-yourself Mass is ended. Go in peace" Francis Carindal Arinze of Nigeria)
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