Repressing ROTC

Washington Post ^ | 08/10/03 | Christina Hoff Sommers

[Pokey78]

Our soldiers deployed in Operation Iraqi Freedom have stirred the country with their courage, proficiency, patriotism and decency. These young men and women come from diverse ethnic, racial and social backgrounds. Many have gone to college.

But the colleges they attended are not Harvard, Yale or Stanford. America's elite schools tend to regard the military as morally suspect. Students soon get the message that a career in the armed forces is unworthy of their consideration.

The distaste of top-tier schools for the military is powerfully demonstrated when faculties deny the Reserve Officer Training Core (ROTC) access to the campus. Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown and Columbia, for example, have not allowed it in 30 years.

The ban discourages some of the country's best students from volunteering for military service. The nation, in turn, is deprived of their skills, talent and imagination.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown and Columbia, for example, have not allowed it in 30 years."

Funny, I find any Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Brown, Columbia morally suspect.

Its time to stop glorifying these elitist POS fascist colleges and time to call them what they are.

Too many conservative/moderate parents think its just great when their kids go to these schools: its actually a disaster.

Stop allowing the indoctrination of your kids. Don't believe the hype and marketing.

[the_Watchman]

Forty years ago, I saw the the push to exclude the ROTC from universities as one of the most cynical efforts of the left. Who among us would want a military totally dominated by personnel trained solely in military institutions.

The infusion of officers trained at Harvard, Penn State, and others would be a guarantee to us all that the military would remain under civilian control and not stray far from our culture.

In many cases, the left got its way in an attempt to drive a wedge between the military services and the civilian population.

[Dante3]

I met a Harvard graudate in the military who apparently took ROTC at antoher school.

[Consort]

Those schools should lose all federal aid/grants and fined, as well.

[laconic]

The federal government uses OUR tax dollars to subsidize these academic entities to the tune of billions yearly. Why doesn't Congress simply require in their next appropriations bill, "No ROTC? Fine, no federal money"

[OldFriend]

My son earned a Bachelor of Science from Carnegie Mellon University......he had to take his ROTC classes at the University of Pittsburgh.

Considering the millions of dollars the government pays CMU for research, this is a travesty.

[Snickersnee]

Harvard ROTC cadets can drill at MIT, just across the Charles River; Yale ROTCs have to go to the UConn campus out in the boondocks at Storrs, more than 50 miles away. I admire the Yalies who do get through, because they show an uncommon degree of persistence. Fortunately, my son is at an elite school and it has a ROTC company. (The one Thos. Jefferson went to!)

[Lunatic Fringe]

Too many conservative/moderate parents think its just great when their kids go to these schools: its actually a disaster.

I think it is great... Despite liberalism running rampant on these colleges, you cannot argue that the networking and connections you make at Harvard are quite valuable to your future. And besides, many college students are liberal... until they graduate and have to start paying taxes.

[Dante3]

It sure is.

[risk]

bttt

http://www.warhorsesim.com/papers/reviews/huntington.soldierandstate.htm

[risk]

http://www.warhorsesim.com/papers/reviews/huntington.soldierandstate.htm

[only1percent]

Although I think it is bad that institutions with millions of dollars in federal funding can reject ROTC, it's not the culprit in "elites" not joining up.

There is always an alternate campus for ROTC drilling, and in many cases it's nearby. Even without ROTC, no Harvard or Columbia graduate who is decent physical shape is going to have any trouble securing an OCS spot if they want one.

And, having gone to an "elite" school which DID have ROTC, I can tell you that it makes almost no impact on the broader campus community. You had to know about ROTC in high school and have pursued it then. People who signed up for ROTC as juniors (a standard option) or people who applied for OCS as non-ROTC seniors were an infinitismal minority.

The real issue, I think, is that the military has not made recruiting graduates of elite schools a priority. While they won't reject them if they come, the bottom line is that the military is quite satisfied with a self-selecting corps of mostly Service Academy and chose-ROTC-as-a-17-year-old people, and don't at all mind that the majority of ROTC grads and people who pursue OCS while in college are from second tier colleges and universities.

As someone who has regularly worked with "elite" and "non-elite" graduates myself, I'm far from convinced that the military is wrong not to assign any particular value to recruiting the "elites"...

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"Those schools should lose all federal aid/grants and fined, as well."

The average middle class taxpayer kicks in a huge chunk of income to support ideology that is hostile to said class.

These elite schools do not need welfare.

[At _War_With_Liberals]

"And besides, many college students are liberal... until they graduate and have to start paying taxes."

Most remain liberal. Most college students are not liberal until propagandized and coerced. if you do not submit to leftist profs, your grades will suffer. I feel for the republican who has to play the game by constantly lying about his philosophy on papers and in tests. I'd venture to say 33% of lib arts classes are dedicated to promoting pure liberal philosophy.

How this is a great experience for students is beyond me. I could not stomach the fascism.

As far as connections go, I did not and still do not want to associate with leftists in business or otherwise.

[El Gato]

My son earned a Bachelor of Science from Carnegie Mellon University......he had to take his ROTC classes at the University of Pittsburgh. Considering the millions of dollars the government pays CMU for research, this is a travesty.

It depends on the reason CMU doesn't have ROTC. If it was because of delining enrollment at the CMU detachments, and the Military's cutbacks in the number of ROTC detachments, then it's not CMU's fault, not directly anyway. The college where my wife is a department chair is very small and hasn't had ROTC for generations, literally. However they have agreement with the nearest public college that does have ROTC to allow their students to count some of the ROTC courses offered at the other school toward degree requirements. They commisioned a Marine last year. He got his own private ceremony, with a Lt. Col. administering the oath, and a Gunny to give him his first salute. His brother. a corporal I think, was on hand as well, in dress blues (the others and he wore green), to give him his second salute. He got one heck of an ovation too, at that little liberal arts school. Of course it was only 9 months after 9-11, which actually made a few of the 60s graduates on the faculty take their head out of their posteriors, some of them even left them out. :)

Personally I'd like to see all college which get federal funds, and any others who want it, have at least one ROTC detachment. They could be staffed by reserve officers on a part time basis. Even if that meant that a kid would have 3 instructors each year of the upper division (jr/sr) program rather than the one they have now. Typical AF ROTC unit has 4 officers, and a couple of enlisted staff, two of the officers teach a 3 hour course with some additional duties, the other two teach a 1 hour course each, with more additional duties, (very typically the PAS (basically the head honcho) will teach the freshmen). Using reserve and/or guard officers, either as an addtional duty or as their prime assignment, would increase number of staff, but probably reduce the cost.

[Hillarys Gate Cult]

Articles about this subject always ask the question why do Harvard, Yale, Stanford, etc. need ROTC when the question should be why does ROTC need these schools?

[OldFriend]

We were told at the time, CMU made the decision as a protest against the ban on homosexuals in the military.

After slick willie instituted don't ask, don't tell I believe the Air Force and the Navy did have ROTC on CMU campus but Army ROTC remained at Pitt.

[pointsal]

Hey, Hey
My daughter got a WONDERFUL scholarship from the ARMY ROTC. She attended Furman University in Greenville, SC. What a beautiful campus.... bricks, ivy, fountains, and a university president that even was a former ROTC cadet!

Long live the ROTC..... let Harvard and Stanford rot in their smugness!!!

[El Gato]

We were told at the time, CMU made the decision as a protest against the ban on homosexuals in the military.

In that case, cut off their research money. Which would hurt CMU big time.